In 2024, if someone offers 100% guaranteed results

In 2024, if someone offers 100% guaranteed results
👟👟 RUN 👟👟
(except...)



...if they're talking about building greater perspective
and a more enjoyable life by connecting with
and learning from people like:

Alicia Ramsdell, CCSP, GCDF, MST
Ancil Lea
Becky Wolfe
Bob Burg
Chase G. Wasson
Gail Lebovic, MA, MD, FACS
Gina Riley
Jack Kelly
John Espirian
Keith Matheny
Loren Greiff
Matthew Ray Scott
MICHELLE B. GRIFFIN
Mike Deckard
Omar M. Khateeb
Spencer Jones
Tim Sweet
Virginia Franco

Deeply grateful for the time and wisdom each of you shared on Today's Medical Sales Leader.

Thank you!

Here's to a bright new year, everyone.

Can't wait to see what you all do in 2024!

Want to hear more?

Smash THIS link: https://lnkd.in/gGgTH-3t

TMSL (Today's Medical Sales Leader) is on every major podcast platform.

And in 2024, We're rooting for you.

PS -- Who do we need to interview in 2024? Drop a name in the comments!

xo,
C

Debby is about to save you hundreds of dollars in 2024 👇

Debby is about to save you hundreds of dollars in 2024 👇




“You can get $1 off per gallon 3 times in a row at Chevron
…by far the best deal.

And if you have a Safeway Rewards account, you can use your points there, as well.

On a frigid 29-degree drive to the Spokane airport, I learned a LOT from Debby, my kind and knowledgeable Uber driver.

And it reminded me why you get *faster* and *better* results when you use a specialist.

I mean, I could have asked any average Joe or Jane about where they find the best gas deals

but when I started chatting with Debby – a 7-year-seasoned-uber driver – I knew I’d hit the Washington-State-gas-prices-jackpot.

Here’s what else she said:

“See, Chevron gives you points every time you fill up, unlike the other rewards programs who cap their gas credit to 5 cents and 15 cents each time.

And you get 5 and 15 cents off per gallon with the first fill up with most apps. But Chevron gives you $1.00 off per gallon for the first 3 fill ups.”

“But if you really want a deal – ride your tank to empty to Idaho and fill up there.”

This woman KNOWS.

…she knows…

And THAT, ladies and gents, is why you go with a specialist when you want fast, accurate info (and results).

Be like Debby.

Save your money, time, and frustration.

Go with a specialist.

(and if it’s a RESUME specialist you need – in the Medical Sales industry – I know a guy ;)

What if your resume is boring … even to you?

What if your resume is boring … even to you?

If your resume or LinkedIn profile sounds like a job description (or so boring that you don't even want to read it) -- do this:

Add numbers, context, and stakes.

This turns your experience into a story and as a BONUS is great language you can also use in an interview.

Win. Win. Win.

And let me be the FIRST to tell you today in case someone forgot – YOU are worth a scintillating resume because you are uniquely capable and a delight to work with.

Now, get the ‘why’ and ‘how’ on paper.

You’ve got this!

________________________

you're worth it.

________________________

A client came to us earlier this year beyond frustrated

A client came to us earlier this year beyond frustrated after coming in 2nd for District Manager roles for over a YEAR.

>> He's worked for the big name brands.
>> He's shaped every company he's worked for.
>> He's won the awards, has the support of an adoring team, etc.

But even he kept coming in 2nd for the final rounds.
Over. and Over. and Over. and OVER, again.

And that's when he called us.

I remember his I'll-try-anything-sigh over the phone like it was yesterday.

He'd been focusing on Applying Online, the ATS, and Fitting In.

I asked him to trust me. To try something radically new.

We focused on Branding, Networking, and LinkedIn Presence.

**Spoiler Alert**

He just got picked up to lead the NATION in a new sales direction for a terrific company ready to pull a never lever to stay relevant, as well.

THIS is the power of your brand.

Build It
Learn to Talk About It
Use Your Power for Good

...then help others do the same.

(don't keep this strategy a secret)

Watch the Video:

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/clairemdavis_resumewriters-medicalsalesjobs-medicaldevicejobs-activity-7145784758667493376-dDm6?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

Can you really stand out among 1,000 candidates next year?

Can you really stand out among 1,000 candidates next year?

Yes.

Here's how.

Watch the video:

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/clairemdavis_can-you-really-stand-out-among-1000-candidates-activity-7145454572054929408-w31G?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

We have one more gift

We have one more gift.

A huge THANK YOU for joining us this year on our first 12 Days of Christmas gifting spree.

Truly.

This has been so fun and with so many layoffs continuing to happen, it’s my honor to share these things with you to help you out of a tight spot.

Goodness knows, I’ve been there, too.

Now,, it’s time to go play Santa and spread some Christmas cheer around Spokane.

Merry Christmas + Happy Holidays + Any Holiday You Celebrate!

…

..

.

You know what, wait.

jingle, jingle, jingle…

…I might have missed something in the sleigh. Hold on.

.

.

.

..

…

Oh yeah – uh-oh…it’s my personal networking tracker.

You know, the one that helps you plan your networking and keeps track for you?

Oh you don’t? Aha! Well, it’s in BETA mode but I’ll tell you a bit about it:

>> one resource to keep track of your contacts and leads

>> reminds you when you touched base with them last

>> and when you should again

Equal parts networking kickstarter – and all-career-long CRM.

…and if you’re not sure who to talk to on LinkedIn to further your career and visibility in medical sales, I’ll *preload* your list FOR you with 20 leaders in this space.

That one.

I mean…it’s Christmas, after all. So how about we give 3 of these away…for free.

Sound good?

To enter this giveaway, SHARE your favorite 12 Days of Christmas Post from us these last dozen days and TELL US WHAT MADE IT YOUR FAVORITE in the copy of the post.

Then, please TAG me so I can find it fast – like Rudolf in a snowstorm.

I’ll choose 5 lucky winners by the New Year and can’t wait to see you soar – like Rudolf out of a snowstorm – with this networking kickstarter.

So that’s it – Merry MERRY Christmas, LinkedIn Family.

From our hearth to yours.

Xo,

Claire + The @TractionResume Team

An attitude of gratitude is not just a positive affirmation on a calendar

An attitude of gratitude is not just a positive affirmation on a calendar. It landed me a final interview after my first coffee with the hiring manager. Here’s how:

What’s the first thing you jump to do when a friend is laid off – you think of how to help them, right?

Me, too.

Did you know that one of the most POWERFUL (and underutilized) ways to do that is to write them a testimonial?

Yep.

After my 4th layoff, I gathered testimonials from clients, colleagues, and mentors and added them to my brag book.

Which I shared in an interview

And one of them in particular landed me a job in diagnostic oncology sales.

Yep – one, little reference letter from the right doctor.

Talk about Christmas MAGIC.

…but here’s the thing.

It’s the *asking* for testimonials and feedback that gives most of us that stale-eggnogg feeling in our stomach.

And *asking* is almost *just as difficult* as them knowing what to say about us, right?

So, you know me – I’m going to give you my personal system for doing so.

I’ve got you covered.

Today, I’m sharing the actual words you can use to ask for these testimonials.

Click right here: https://lnkd.in/gdJCZEG6

It’s dual gift –

>> You know what to ask

>> They know what to say

A gift that keeps on giving…and my just be the difference between your coming first and finaling for the job you want.

Merry (almost) Christmas!

Claire + The @TractionResume team

PS – Challenge yourself – send out 2 of these today AND write 2 LinkedIn Reviews for someone who’s impacted your life and career.

Nothing spreads cheer and goodwill like surprising someone with a kind word of appreciation and praise.

If THEY only knew what YOU knew about your friend

If THEY only knew what YOU knew about your friend

...they'd FLOCK to hire him/her, right?

Like the coffee and hot chocolate table at a snowy tree farm in December.

So what do we do?

Know how to help others discover your friend's brilliance, too?

Write them a review.

There's truly no better gift this year than your endorsement for a job well done or a winning culture builder or a magnetic personality.

But what do you say?

Follow and SHARE this carousel.

I'll tell you what to say and how to say it.

___________________

Merry Christmas to YOU!

Love,

Claire + The Traction Resume Team

#ResumeWriters

#RareDiseaseJobs

#MedicalSalesJobs

#MedicalDeviceJobs

Still waiting for that one gift

Still waiting for that one gift

you were wishing for as a kiddo

but you ended up with socks instead?

Been there

So heap some tinsel on yesterday’s Top 8 Things to Measure… how about 5 more?

10 more?

20?

Okay, you’ve been REALLY good – let’s do 42 MORE THINGS you can measure (other than quota) to make people want to hire you.

Click here to get ALL 50: https://lnkd.in/eQjmB7ND

Because, let’s face it.

Even if you haven’t been good ALL year, the ultimate gift giver – Mr. Clause himself – survives on cookies and milk.

Moderation is out the window around the holidays.

Ho, ho, ho!

Claire + The @TractionResume Team

Pssst – that gift I'm still pining for?

A red 10” Spin Jammer – those are the sugar plums still dancing around in my dreams.

What’s on YOUR list?

Did you get my gift?

Did you get my gift?

Click here if you missed it: https://lnkd.in/gGHqFUCM

And for those of you snagged that Ferrari of a resume template…

It’s officially Day 8 of the 12 Days of Christmas from Traction Resume!

…which brings me to my most-frequently-asked question by job seekers:

“Claire, what if I don’t have good numbers for my resume?”

We’ve got you covered!

Get your resume template out and follow this carousel to find 8 More Things that can be measured to make people want to hire you.

Ho, ho, ho!

Claire + The Traction Resume Team

#MedicalSalesResumes

#MedicalSalesJobs

#ResumeWriters

#RareDiseaseJobs

Shake, shake, shake

Shake, shake, shake

Shake, shake, shake

Shake, shake, Oooh…we’re going Big Gift on Day 7

Today, I'm sharing MY system

The one I use with all my clients

And the one I that used for myself

My Triple S System

That has brought me back from 5 layoffs

That has landed 100s of clients for 6-figure medical sales jobs

And that is so simple to use -- you can implement it in <10 minutes

(yes, really)

It took a decade to realize

And I'm honored to share it

My gift to you: https://lnkd.in/gDhPRW-f

Because everyone needs to know this stuff

And in today's market, you must sell you story

But you've probably never looked at your story this way.

Click that link above but beware

You'll never look at your resume the same again.

Happy Holidays,

Claire + The Traction Resume Team

#MedicalSalesResumes

#MedicalSalesJobs

#ResumeWriters

#BiotechJobs

Gary V and I don't agree on a lot of things

Gary V and I don't agree on a lot of things

but on this we do

There's a fundamental difference between giving to get and giving without expectations.

and it comes down to the giver.

When we give to get -- it can be felt and can be laced with disappointment.

It's not really giving. It's a transaction.

But if you sling goodwill out into this world like snowballs in a good 'ol fashioned snowball battle -- and focus more on the making, the throwing, and the giggling than the one you get to the cheek -- now you're generating good will.

(Especially when you cover your buddy from the neighbor kids' pelleting and he dives behind your snow barricade.)

There's a whole lotta good that comes from goodwill.

Give

Give

Give

Give

Give

...and you'll be surprised

The more reviews

notes of thanks

gratitude

...that you put out into the world, the more you get back.

And the trick?

Focusing on the first part, not the second.

_______________________

We're on day 5 of the 12 Days of Christmas!

What's been your favorite so far?

Tell me in the comments!

#medicalsalesresumewriter

#medicaldeviceresume

#medicalsalesresume

#medicalsalesjobs

Ever write "John Smith is a consummate professional..." because you didn't know what to say in his review?

Ever write "John Smith is a consummate professional..." because you didn't know what to say in his review?

Yeesh -- I know. It's not easy to brag on others.

But today, I'm going to show you how to do it so well that you lay the foundation for your friend to:

>> Build credibility
>> Land a Job Faster
>> Get Connected to their "Tile Guy" and a discount, too.

You have the power to spark a relationship for someone by just using your well-intended recommendation.

Your words -- your referral -- matter.

Let's use that power for good.

Here's my recipe.

___________________________

Hi, I'm Claire -- and you've found us in the thick of our 12 DAYS OF CHRISTMAS series!

My team and I write resumes that get people hired in Medical Sales -- fast and with less stress.

(Stay tune for MORE to come and if it's resume help you need -- I'm just a DM away!)

🎄 Claire + The Traction Resume Team

"Claire, I've had an extremely successful career but I haven't had to interview since 1995."

"Claire, I've had an extremely successful career but I haven't had to interview since 1995."

I hear ya.

Your STORY is the key.

Let's keep it simple.

Follow this slider for a jumpstart on how...

🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄
___________________
Just one more stop on the 12 DAYS OF CHRISTMAS!

What has been your favorite post so far? Need a refresh?

Was it Day 1 with the F R E E LinkedIn Banners? https://lnkd.in/gzFBK34X

Was it the Guide to UnBoring your emails? https://lnkd.in/gTpSz_V9

Tell me in the comments!

(And stay tune for MORE to come!)

🎄 Claire + The Traction Resume Team

Here's a guide I wish I'd had in 2010

Here's a guide I wish I'd had in 2010.

Tbh, it's pretty rare for me now

but when I was in the field, sometimes

I'd struggle with what to say in an email to a...

>> doctor

>> administrator

>> colleague or manager

I'd think "hey, my intentions are good but how else can I break the ice?"

Check out this slider to de-ice your openers and get some real conversation brewing!

And for more on ways to liven up your small talk -- RING that BELL so you don't miss my upcoming episode with the fabulous Julie Brown on @Today'sMedicalSalesLeader.

She's the ultimate networking and business development coach and shared some gems and exercises to uncover WAY more interesting things to open with than "so, what do you do?"

You'll find out if you may be sabotaging your networking efforts with the # 1 scientifically-proven, most-despised yet most-common question (in the US) there is!

Tune in to learn more and you'll be clinking with new friends you've made in no time.

(and YES these tips work in the office, at conferences, ... even at your next holiday party)

Give Julie a follow and remember -- this is the 12 Days of Christmas Give-Away Week.

Share your favorite post(s) to help more people build their networking muscle and be entered to WIN BIG on Day 12!

Ho, Ho, Hold on to your horses...we're just getting started!

Claire + The Traction Resume Team

What takes a present (and LinkedIn profile) from good to irresistible?

What takes a present (and LinkedIn profile) from good to irresistible?

The wrapping, of course!

Which brings us to our FIRST giveaway – FREE LINKEDIN BANNERS.

Yes, seriously!

Click right here to snag ALL of them: www.tractionresume.com/linkedin-banner-freebies-opt-in

Let’s (blue) spruce up your profile with a little branding that speaks right to the heart of the healthcare industry.

Merry (early) Christmas!

– Claire + The @TractionResume Team

Ho, Ho, Ho…oooh we’re just getting started!

Psst – QUICK VIDEO on HOW to upload your shiny new banners: https://www.loom.com/share/2b885680652241a3b29af5b6029326eb?sid=898f34a4-e98d-4f3f-99ae-c6c8d52103a9

You’ve been good ALL year (right?)

You’ve been good ALL year (right?)

And it’s time you got a little something to show it.

DAY ONE of our 12 Days of Christmas Giveaway is allllllmost here!

Ring my bell and be the FIRST to get your goodies

Every

Single

Day

Until

Christmas

From us to you – Happy Holidays!

Claire + the @TractionResume Team 🎄

Tailor your resume PER job you apply?

Only if you want to go from good to *dangerously effective.*

Here’s why:

Ask yourself one question…

Q: What is this company trying to do/avoid/solve by hiring me?

A: They’re not looking for a catch-all hire. They’re looking for a specific set of skills — to solve a specific problem.

aha!

How?

Some of this can be found within the job description itself or on the company website/press releases.

Anything Else?

For deeper insights, gather intel from research and informational interviews with the hiring team and those who work(ed) at the company you're targeting.

And?

Present the most relevant information that connects the dots on why your wins are significant for this particular company.

Whoa. I see it.

Suddenly, you’re the solution

(specifically)

So…individualized resumes per job applied?

All Day.

They’re effective

…dangerously effective ;)

Medical Innovation and Entrepreneurship

AI-Generated Transcript below. There may be errors.

Claire Davis 0:12

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of today's medical sales leader. I'm your host, Claire Davis. And today I have someone remarkable with me on the show, and I cannot wait to tell you a little bit more about her. But before I do, welcome Dr. Gail Lebovic. It's so great to have you on the show.

Gail Lebovic 0:30

Thank you, Claire. It's wonderful to be here. I appreciate you having me on.

Claire Davis 0:34

Oh, my goodness, I couldn't wait. I, I know I've seen you on a couple of other shows you are everywhere on LinkedIn on live online on Forbes. And so I couldn't wait for my chance. But if I may, I'd love to introduce you and tell everybody here a little bit more about you because you're a world renowned surgeon, a visionary inventor, which we'll talk about here in a minute, and definitely a med tech entrepreneur. So it's a pretty powerful combo, as well as being the driving force behind Silicon Valley innovations incorporated in the creator of the revolutionary nasal cleanse. So I want to thank you personally for the nasal cleanse from the Davis household because I feel like further health will be in our future because of your innovation. So thank you so so much. And your journey from surgical excellence to innovation is really what I want to dive into today. Because I think that it takes something really special to go from the clinical environment. And then also pair it with this incredible business acumen and the vision that you have for these kinds of products. So can you tell us a little bit about maybe what was that initial spark, that you started to think, hmm, I have some I mean, I'm an incredible surgeon already. But there's something else that I want to do here. There's there's something that I have that I want to bring to market, can you tell us about that, kind of switch that transition into your two fold role as clinician and businesswoman?

Gail Lebovic 2:04

I will try. Thanks for that introduction. It's a little scary when I hear all that stuff, it makes me just think, Oh, boy. But it sounds like it was all very organized, you know, and planned. But it actually wasn't. It really was not, it was just a very natural organic thing started a long time before I was a surgeon actually started when I was in medical school. And you know, those days, we didn't have cell phones that we were running around with, we didn't have iPads. So we had little slips of paper in all of our pockets with all the patients informations. And we have to go around, and we'd have to gather all the information. And I literally started by designing a pocket sized notebook with little patient information cards. And it became really popular because everybody looked really organized and you had everything at your fingertips. And so we sold those, my dad sold them around the country, out of his house. And that's how, you know, I realized, wow, you could actually have an idea that's practical, that solves a problem. And you can create it and sell it. Wow, that's kind of cool. And it just became one after the next after the next after the next. So i Someone once said to me, actually Dr. Tom Fogarty once said to me, you know, I'm going to keep you close to me, because I know the people who have ideas, keep having them. And I thought that was so interesting. I didn't know what he meant, but it's so true. So that was how I initially started. But there wasn't really a switch from surgery to, you know, going into med tech. It was I did them in parallel. I was very fortunate. And it started when again, I was at Stanford. So it's a very innovative environment. But this was back in the 90s. And I was taking care of patients like my favorite thing in the world to do. And I got a phone call again from Dr. Fogarty. And he said, Hey, you know, I know you're a breast surgeon, but do you have any ideas in women's health or in breast surgeon? I said, Yeah, heck yeah. And he said, well come to my office tomorrow. And I was like, okay, so we rearrange the schedule and off I went to his office and and that was kind of the beginning of 25 years worth of serial, you know, entrepreneur venture. So it was just one after the other.

Claire Davis 4:49

So, okay, so I was dying to know what happened in this meeting. What happened in this in this meeting with Dr. Fogarty.

Gail Lebovic 4:56

Honestly, I remember exactly where I was sitting, because he was such an iKON in such a legend, still is, obviously. And we sat at his little table. And he is very quiet. He's very careful about what he says, you know. But he said, I have an engineering team. And would you like to work with us? And I said, Yes. It is like history. So I started consulting with one of the companies there and his chief engineer, George Herman. And they were a little bit in trouble, where they were at at this project. And so we just went to the whiteboard and started coming up with ideas and changing direction of the company. For just mostly practical reasons that, you know, later became very important. And that company was very successful. And it's, there's a big story behind really each one, to be honest.

Claire Davis 5:58

Okay, let do you. Do you mind if we dive into this one? Sure. Okay, so tell us a little bit about you know, because you go in and you're, you're fresh in this environment, right? You've got some engineers, you've got the the visionary Dr. Fogarty is like your, we're gonna put this a team together. Here, you come with incredible clinical experience and makes me laugh a little bit that he's like, Do you have any ideas on women's health? Because of course you do. Oh. So So tell me about what was happening? And then what changed? And then what was the result?

Gail Lebovic 6:33

Yeah, so I met with a team of three engineers, again, with a blank white board, which is my favorite thing to do. And they told me about what they were trying to design. And I proceeded to poke holes in it. I'm not sure they were ready for my brutal honesty. But they got it and embraced it at the end of the day. And so, you know, the, the issue really became one that I think is really important. They were looking at this and trying to solve a problem from an engineering standpoint. And from that standpoint, they had done a great job. But they were working in a vacuum, without the clinical side. And on that clinical side, it's not just how a product will perform, you know, anatomically, or if it involves radiation, how is it going to be for planning? It's, it's also about acceptance, adoption, you know, how will the patient's view this? Will they want this in their body? Will they want to use it? You know, will they accept it when the doctor tells them they need it? So that's an important piece, and also physician acceptance and adoption. It's really challenging to bring new products. And when I say new products, I mean, something really novel. You know, that hasn't been done before. This particular project was a an implantable marker after minimally invasive biopsy. So yeah. Are you familiar with that? Yes. Yeah. So before this, what would happen is they would take a little biopsy through a needle. And then if it came back cancer, we the surgeon wouldn't know where that spot was. Right? Big problem. Like, although, you know, you can't feel it. You could see it on the X ray, but it's kind of like, where do I go. And so we did all sorts of things to try to find those lesions like wire localization and other complex things. But at the end of the day, people started putting clips in there. And, you know, it was a marginal improvement, because the clips would move around. So there's fluid in the biopsy cavity, and the clips would move around, sometimes they would spit out. And so what we did was we invented a clip that had a marker in it and was surrounded by collagen. And the collagen when they inserted it into the little biopsy cavity, it would blow up like that. And it would fill that space, and it would hold it in place. So it was, you know, simple, yet an elegant way to solve that problem. And ultimately, Johnson and Johnson bought that marker from us. And they still use it today. That was back in 1997.

Claire Davis 9:38

Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. You know, it's such a clear, definitive result that the patient and the provider are going to get, but like you said, patient adoption and acceptance and physician adoption and acceptance are very different things. So can you tell us a little bit about maybe the tenuous calm association that now you're saying, Okay, well, when it comes to physician adoption, you know, it's going to be a fine line, of course, between, hey, what you've always been doing isn't wrong, it's just that there may be a better option that you can try. So, so what kinds of things helped you navigate that conversation? And how did you end up deciding? This is the message we're going to use when we talk to physicians about how this is going to be beneficial to them, and to help rather than a, you know, a call for fixing what they've always been doing?

Gail Lebovic 10:37

That is a very astute statement. And, you know, it's a nuance that a lot of people miss when they bring a product to market. Right? Because you're, you're gonna step on somebody, somebody's going to take it personally, that, and they're gonna take it like that, like, What do you mean? You mean, I wasn't doing a good enough job, you mean. And so it's something that I've learned over time, which of course, you just figured out, straight out of the chute. But you have to think a lot about the strategic positioning of a new product. And the people who, you know, are going to be upset when you bring this product to market. Sometimes it affects somebody's pocketbook, which is the hardest thing to do. For me, myself, I and my team, we really try to stay focused on just doing the right thing. And I have found that when you do that, and you do the research, so that people understand why you're bringing this product to them. It's a little bit of an easier path. And I also think you have to identify the benefits for everyone, like make it a win win. Because there always is a benefit. I mean, there should be, yeah, if you're gonna go through the trouble of you know, creating something, inventing it, bringing it to market, we want it to have a positive impact on the healthcare environment. And so we kind of stick to that, and stay very focused on it. And it seems to work.

Claire Davis 12:24

You know, it reminds me a little bit about and I know, I know, we talked about this briefly before we jumped on. But it does remind me of something that you talked about in a Forbes article not too long ago about your Northstar, and really the mission that you have with the overall impact you're making on the market here. So do you feel like this? Do you felt like this product? Right, this one that's that's right out the gate, it was absolute winner? Like, clearly, it was an incredible help for women everywhere, going through this biopsy situation. But do you feel like you had that Northstar? Where that mission clarified before? Or maybe was it after, once you started creating more and more products, and then seeing the, you know, like, seeing this mission form as you were building?

Gail Lebovic 13:12

I think it's something that is part of me. You know, I can't explain that part. But I've come to understand that looking back, because people started asking me all the time over and over. How do you do this? How do you do one after the other. And again, it's not planned, it just kind of happens because I absolutely love being able to create something and bring it tomorrow. There's nothing like it. I love surgery. Amazingly, I'd love surgery. But this is different, because surgery is a one on one interaction. You know, you're helping one person, you're impacting their family. It's fabulous. And it's fun. Especially breast reconstruction is like amazing. But when you create a product and 100 million women use that product. It's totally different feeling even though they don't know anything about me. You know, I love that. So it's, it's very cool.

Claire Davis 14:17

That is what an incredible feeling. So, I mean, so now so so let me bring everybody up to speed. So most recently, you've got a product right now that is actually in the e and t space. So can you can you tell us a little bit about Naser cleanse and what that is. And then I'd really like to hear about how you pick a winning idea. Because I think that for someone who has the the vision like you do for products, it I'd love to hear more about, you know how you know, hey, you know I'm coming from breast cancer initially in the medical environment, but I see that the This could be an amazing option for people. This could be an amazing thing for people that could be in. It's not necess, you're not siloed you really have such an expansion, expansive vision for these different products. So can you tell us about Naser cleanse and then and then also how you know, okay, I'm gonna pay attention to this little idea and maybe not that other one?

Gail Lebovic 15:22

That's a great question. Most of the products that I have done before were in women's health, they were not all in breast. Interestingly enough, even though I started with that, I would you know, I'm constantly observing things around me and learning. I love to learn things like I want to learn guitar. Yeah.

Claire Davis 15:43

That's right. We might be having to find some electric guitars. You said your way. Oh, Lonnie, this one.

Gail Lebovic 15:49

So I'd love learning, you know, and it stimulates a lot of ideas. So you're right, you'd have to kind of weed through all the ideas and think about them. I think a lot, you know, but this one was very special. So back in 2008, in the hospital, where I was doing my surgeries breast, and this is where I met Keith mfine. At extraordinaire. Yeah. Yeah. So his operating room was next door to mine. And so it was really kind of, it's really kind of fun to come full circle. So back in 2008, there was a lot of talk about antibiotic resistant bacteria causing post op infections, right. So I started learning about that, because an infection after a breast reconstruction is disastrous, I started learning more and more about it. And this was methicillin resistant staph or MRSA. And I learned that guess what, it is colonized in the nose? Oh, wow. Okay. And about 40% of the world's population? Has it been their nose?

Claire Davis 16:58

Oh, no, like right now?

Gail Lebovic 17:00

No, isn't that interesting?

Claire Davis 17:02

Makes me wonder swab immediately. Yeah.

Gail Lebovic 17:06

And I never, never really truly understood the connection, like, okay, you've got MRSA in your nose, we have to give you vancomycin, we have to do all these things to avoid infection, blah, blah, blah. And after I sold my last company, it was a problem that like, was really bothering me still. So I started reading and researching about it. And I found you know what, there's really not a good solution for this. However, small groups of physicians did recognize that it was coming from the nose happened happens is we touch our face at least seven times an hour.

Claire Davis 17:48

Ah, I can attest to that. Especially small children a lot.

Gail Lebovic 17:54

So the bacteria and viruses obviously get on our hands, which is why washing your hands really does help prevent infection, because it's coming from here. Oh, yeah. Right. So we wash our hands. And I started thinking, But wait a minute, it's in our nose. And a small group, as I mentioned, of physicians, mostly orthopedic surgeons have have tuned into this. And they started treating the nose with antibiotics, which was not a good idea, because then they got other super bacteria. And so they now in many places, I won't say it's standard of care. But in many places, they use beta dying to prep the nose before doing orthopedic implants. Interesting, very, that will reduce post operative infection by 60%. Huge number very effective. And I thought, wow, that is an area ripe for innovation. So I went to work. And my mind automatically drifts towards design, product design. It's just kind of where I go, but I'm not an engineer. So I just started dreaming things up. And I had a vision for what I wanted in my mind and started working with my wonderful team of engineers. And it's fun to look back at kind of what they came up with. And how we morph into what is the design in my head, which is this. I don't know if you've seen our little magic wand. Yeah. But that's it. And it's long way from where I started. So it is fun to do that. Anyway, I started working on that and thinking well, we should make a gel and make this just like a toothbrush so people could clean their nose on a regular basis. Not to make the nose sterile. But to clean the nose, clean it from germs and allergens and there's all sorts Lots of junk, that we inhale through our nose, you know, about 7000 liters is inhaled through the nose a day.

Claire Davis 20:09

Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a huge, huge filter we need. It's a huge filter.

Gail Lebovic 20:13

And the nose is kind of overwhelmed these days with poor air quality allergens and all that other stuff, viruses, bugs. So we created an antiseptic gel to kind of decrease the load, the bacterial load, the viral load, allergens, all that kind of stuff in the nose. And then COVID hit. So I had no intentions, honestly, of doing another company. The last one was my eighth company. And it was, you know, really a great experience. And I had no intentions of doing it again. But when COVID hit, it was kind of one of those crazy. Go again. And then I started looking at the regulatory pathway, the intellectual property, you know, there's a pathway, there's kind of a recipe, because I thought, well, maybe this is a crazy idea. And I ran it by some people, and they're like, You're nuts. Nobody's gonna stick anything up their nose. And I said, well, they stick their finger up their nose every day. Let's retire the finger, right, and have a more sophisticated, effective way to do this. So that's, that's kind of how it started. And then we formed the company. And it's been unbelievable, we have well over 30% growth month over month, it's just like this. Yeah. And it's very effective. against allergies. It's, it's incredible. And I've had a chance to, like, open up this whole new Pandora's box of e and t. That's incredible.

Claire Davis 21:51

And how fun because it's, I mean, it's a new, not a new world, but you know, it's a new specialty where, you know, your, your imagination gets to play fresh, because you've done so much in women's health care and so much in surgery. So that's got to be invigorating for you to tap, tap this new market. It is. I love it.

Gail Lebovic 22:11

And sneak peek, we also have something to follow in the women's health care sector that's going to be similar.

Claire Davis 22:22

Oh, awesome. Yeah. Oh, my goodness, I'm so excited to hear more about that. You only need around two at that time. Dr. Baby. So um, when? Okay, so first I'm, I'm now imagining like, Okay, what was the first iteration of nasal cleanse? Like, I'm imagining, like to sit on the nose? Was it like a, like a flash of light? Like, what? What was the sort of first engineered concept? And how did it change?

Gail Lebovic 22:47

I don't have it handy. But if I can dig it up, I can send you some pictures. It's really funny. It was, I was trying to make it. You know, like I said to them, let's try to make it, you know, as natural as possible, blah, blah, blah. So they kind of had this big blob of wool on a stick. Like, what are those things called a scrubby thing?

Claire Davis 23:10

Oh, like a pipe cleaner? Like a bottle cleaner? Whoa, Unknown

Gail Lebovic 23:14

whoa, whoa, I'm like, No, that's not gonna work.

Claire Davis 23:19

Oh, yeah. It's all in the design. It's all of the design. In though you mentioned Okay, beta design that they were using in the nose was like 60%. Do you know? How has your team seen? You know what sort of results it looks like when they use a nasal cleanse?

Gail Lebovic 23:35

So that's a great question. We do know in allergies, it'll reduce severe congestion, dry, itchy nose, that kind of thing in 84% of patients. Just using it twice a day.

Claire Davis 23:47

Where were you when I was growing up? You know, allergies have plagued our family for decades. And in fact, my boys both have them. So we're gonna have to try this out. We'll send it back to him. Oh, thank you in Spokane, we have a season where there's this sort of release of pine pollen. So anybody here who's tuning in from the Pacific Northwest will attest. There's a week when everything is coated in like a neon green dust and

Gail Lebovic 24:14

yellow sage down here. Oh, it's brutal. Well, then it won't surprise you that 155 million people in the US every year are looking for nasal relief products. So you know, that's part of the research that I do on the front end, like do we really want to do this? Is this really a crazy idea? Because I have to ask that question. Right? No. And and then the deeper I went and still every day I find out. I find out more and more about how important the nose is and how we've overlooked it. We just complete it's in the center of our face.

Claire Davis 24:57

In why we haven't had a solution like This before when we're all I mean, allergies are no stranger to most of us. So this is phenomenal. And do you think? Do you think that? The I asked this question, actually, I think to Keith as well. So So when it comes to creating new products, do you find that when you start to create another product or work with a team and then establish a company, and then you sell it, you know, you're you've got this wonderful track record of releasing really innovative, actually useful, completely different products? Is it a muscle? Or is it? What does that feel like for like the next few because I imagine getting that first or second product off the ground must have felt like an incredible, but also an incredible lift, and maybe a little scary? Because it was new. So now, is it the same? Or is it more like this muscle you've built? And you can kind of see the trajectory? And you can just vet Hey, this is going to fly? This is not? Is it easier now?

Gail Lebovic 26:08

Easier is not the way I would describe it, but I would say yes, innately, I would say yes. Because over time you develop experience. Right? So, but it's hard every time it's hella hard work, you know, 16 hour days and seven days a week, but it's fun. And this is a completely new thing, we actually design this to go down the path on the clinical side, because that's what we're familiar with, right. And we have an entire line of clinical products, nasal cleansers and lubricants to use before scopes, like before doing, you know, nasal pharynx. Skippy, we have that whole thing. But again, COVID hit. So let's not forget, we develop this during COVID supply chain issues we did you know, everything, all of our products are made in the US for that reason. We make everything you know, locally, we do all the packaging ourselves. Yeah, but what I was gonna say is, is it easier? Boy, that's a hard question. There is a little bit of a recipe, you know, but we're learning. And oh, I know what I was gonna say. We developed this going down the clinical path. But we started getting calls from independent pharmacies. And consumers were like, I want this for my allergies, I want this, you know, I'm going on a plane, people who work in difficult environments where the air is dry, like pilots, flight attendants. And so we flipped our model on its head. And this is something that you have to be able to do as an entrepreneur, you have to be flexible, you cannot dig your heels in on a design on a pathway on any you have to be ready to change on a dime, and willing, because otherwise you will not be successful. Sorry. It's just I think it's just the truth.

Claire Davis 28:12

I think that's so brilliant. Most people who develop products, myself included, when I started business and sort of launching offerings, I was absolutely married to what I was going to offer people I thought I knew all their problems, because I had the say, you know, so I was making products for me. But when I was having, you know, a rocky career path. So I was like, This is what I needed. And it was it was a it was a learned skill to become flexible in the way that you're talking about.

Gail Lebovic 28:46

You have to be very open minded. Because you're gonna get feedback and you can't push back. You can't go no, this is you have to listen, you have to really listen. So we flipped everything on its head. We had medical device salespeople lined up, you know, ready to go into the clinic and everything. But we repackaged, we redesigned our packaging, we did everything we realized the same product could be used for the consumer. And we've been very successful on the consumer side. And I think the clinical side will come second. It's kind of the opposite of what we normally would do. So this will the clinical side will come but we need a lot more clinical work to be done first, you know, clinical clinically based evidence getting in there doing a surgical study. We back to the beta Dawn we mentioned beta dying early on beta Dawn Nine kills the cilia in your nose. Little known fact. So you cannot use it every day. You should not use it every day. And it has iodine so some people are allergic to that. We wanted something that was gentle and that actually was designed for the nose Not like let's take another product off the shelf and use it in the nose. So anyway, that's, that's my my foray into en ti for the moment. It's great. I love it.

Claire Davis 30:11

Oh my gosh, I absolutely love it. You know, I think that there is a really special blend of expertise and talent that you have for doing this. And I cannot wait to hear what you are going to do next in the women's health sector. With that that's kind of in the same vein. So how exciting. You know, I'm sure everyone here. If you have not followed Dr. Lebovic. Yet, please make it your first order of business today. I demand it, go find her on LinkedIn, follow her. She's doing great things in this industry. And just from today, a couple of things that I've taken away is that when you were initially approached to develop a product or to start kind of like masterminding on these products, to stay open to those ideas and have that conversation, because I think a lot of times where we feel like we have to come up with all the answers ourselves. Sometimes it's so powerful, just to have that, that that group with their own talents to bounce off of each other. And it sounds like that was an absolute fit, where you're able to go in, hit that blank wall with your notes and poke holes where you will and and really create something special as a team. And I love how you've mentioned your team a bunch just in this one conversation. And then the other thing I wanted to mention is I don't want to glaze over this piece, because you mentioned being flexible, but also that comes with listening deeply to your customer or your target. So it reminds me a lot of you know, a lot of people listening to this podcast today are in the job market, or they're laid off or they're looking for their next startup where they can go and be that visionary or, or work with those engineers or work with incredible surgeons like yourself, creating these products like what I would say to you is go in with that open mind. Because a lot of times if we bring in our preconceived notions, we can block ourselves from the opportunity in front of us and the great ideas of others. So I love your open mindedness. I am so inspired by the vision that you have all the things you've done in healthcare. And I'm, I'm sure one day we'll be doing this podcast and you'll be telling me about the 100th company that you've so. But for those who are as inspired as I am Dr. Lebovic, where can they learn more about Nazer cleanse and connect with you and your team?

Gail Lebovic 32:36

Well, thank you so much, Claire, for all those comments. You can find me on LinkedIn, which is the only social media I do personally. But also at info at nasal cleanse.com. You can get me there.

Claire Davis 32:50

Awesome. Thank you so much. You guys made all of this in the comments. Seriously, Dr. Gail, I cannot thank you enough. I would love to do a second interview with you when that new product comes out. And we cannot wait to follow the success of Naser cleanse. And personally I can't wait to try it out as well with my kids because we've just resigned ourselves for the first month or two of school that we're just going to be sick for like, oh no. So I can't wait to see this just have an impact in our family as well. So we just are so grateful to have you. It's inspiring what you're doing as an entrepreneur and a claim surgeon and for everyone who's tuned in today. Thank you for spending the time with us and make sure you follow Dr. Gail and we'll see you next time on today's medical sales leader.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Burnout in Healthcare and Leadership Development

AI-Generated Transcript below. There may be errors.

Claire Davis 0:12

Hello, hello, and welcome back to today's medical sales leader. And today I have somebody really special with me, especially if you are working in a practice or in an organization where sometimes things get a little bit tense or you're kind of feeling off with the communication or the dynamics with your team, which happens everywhere, by the way. So I'm so excited to bring on Becky Wolfe, Becky, how are you today? Thank you so much for joining us,

Becky Wolfe 0:39

Claire, thanks so much for this opportunity to have this conversation with you. I'm super pumped.

Claire Davis 0:45

Oh my gosh, me too. It's been a long time coming. She Becky and I have been friends here. And we met each other here on LinkedIn, gosh, about a year ago. And since then, I have seen an incredible impact that she's having on health care, offices, teams, and so many other people. So though I know she's a woman who needs no introduction, I'm going to talk about exactly what Becky is doing and up to these days. So Becky is a leadership consultant who helps burn out healthcare teams go from surviving to thriving, wouldn't that be nice. And her goal is to help teams communicate and collaborate more effectively to reduce turnover and create cultures where everyone wants to work. So I mean, this is an incredible mission that you have. And I'm pretty sure for everybody here who was listening, they're already thinking of the one or two or 10, places where they've worked, where they've experienced burnout. And I don't know toxic bosses, lots of you know, issues in the workplace. So the work you're doing here is so important. And I would love to first know, you know, where does this passion to figure out what is going on at a practice in between people, and then give them results and opportunities to fix it? Where did that passion stem from for you?

Becky Wolfe 1:59

Yeah, so I My background is that I was a PA for 13 years, and part of my practice was actually become a health coach. And I found out that I loved coaching more than I actually loved being a PA and I didn't hate being a PA, I actually enjoyed that too. But there was something about the ability to help people get what they really wanted, from health coaching. So finding out that consistency with information and accountability, and just kind of walking with somebody to a goal that they had that was just a driver for me, specifically in the coaching space. And then when I stepped back in healthcare and recognized that we weren't really doing what I thought was true health care, it was more so chronic disease management. That was a frustration point for me. So honestly, I started to feel burned out in cardiology because I was trying to make all these changes. And I wanted to see all this change happen. And I wasn't seeing it. So I kind of lost hope in our system. And I think from there, what happened was, I ended up enrolling in the leadership course for myself, because I felt really stuck. And I'm like, I have no idea. I have no language as to why I need something and I cannot figure it out. And I don't know if you've ever been there, Claire, but it's just like this weird feeling of like, if somebody could just help me figure out my life. That would be amazing. So yeah, I enrolled, enrolled in this course for a year and found language, that my personality type it, we actually thrive with helping people get what they want coaching, habit, change, all those types of things. So that's when I recognized I'm like, okay, healthcare, still the space I want to be in, but just in a different capacity.

Claire Davis 3:45

You know, that's so interesting, because I was just reading a book recently that the the overall theme of the book was that healthcare in the West generally is okay, you come into a cardiologist, you're having a weird rhythm, or you're having pain, and we're looking at the body as the function. And what about the function or the structure of the body is broken? But I think something that we've all really tuned into over the last three years, that's COVID, of course, is that our mindset and our internal, our self talk, and our spirit even are a huge part of our health. And it's sometimes went unnoticed when we would go to the doctor because really, you know, we've got to deal with empirical evidence at the at the physician's office, right. So do you feel like sort of this recognition for you of, hey, I know that I'm working in cardiology, but these people actually have something else that needs to be addressed. Was that something that you were recognizing when you felt like, you know, I feel like this I feel like there's more here.

Becky Wolfe 4:56

Yeah, so I would definitely say that stress being one of those things, the We're never talking about in the cardiologists office, right? So I've 1520 minutes to see a patient. So I'm talking about medication side effects and talking about their disease process. So like cardiomyopathy, easy tribulation, congestive heart failure, all those things, we're having to get into the meat of like, what their disease looks like. And then like the very tail end of his conversations, they're like, Yeah, but isn't there anything in my diet, I can change? And I'm like, Hmm, there's something to that, why are we not addressing that? Or like, for those that we're working really long hours, they would still think about that. But then in my mind, I'm thinking, well, how are they even gonna have time to cook or do all those things? So it's really behavior and habits that we're having to focus on. So that's when I got really excited and learning about all those things. But you're absolutely right. Most of medicine isn't dedicated towards those types of practices. It's just disease process, and medication and side effects. And then all of that loop goes over and over again, it's just cyclical to finding the right formula for patients, which has nothing to do with lifestyle change.

Claire Davis 6:05

Yeah. And you know, where do people start with that? I mean, if they're, if someone's saying, okay, something isn't right with me, or my team, or my mindset is, like, funky right now. Like, I just, I'm not myself, you know, how does? How does that present? And what are some of the things maybe that, you know, you look for when you are sitting down with someone who say is like a practice manager or physician. And you're like, Okay, these things are telling me just like, you shared with the, hey, can I change my diet? Like, what are some of the things that you that flagged you to say, Oh, we've got some work to do here.

Becky Wolfe 6:43

Yeah. So that can look a variety of different ways individually, it's usually like, I'm just tired, I'm tired all the time. And I just don't have the same zeal that I had to go to work, even though they know they're like, in the work that they love to do, potentially, there's a lot of other factors besides work, that can contribute to just this level of fatigue. Other things are just like negativity, like, you know, World Health Organization, says it like burnout is decreased professional efficacy, so non, you know, inability to make high level decisions, or it's really hard negativism or cynicism towards some job, and then just really, like a sense of fatigue. So I'll ask like, sometimes if it's the individual, any manifestations that are physical, but a lot of it is like, I just don't feel right. I just and it's like the stuck, overwhelmed feeling frustration. Lack of hope, is a big thing for burnout people that I'm working with, I'm like, I just don't feel like things are gonna change. So those are some of the individual symptoms that I'm looking for. organizationally. Biggest thing is turnover. We can't retain our people. Yeah, we won't. They won't stay. So that's that's a massive issue. Right? If you don't have the staff to do the work that you're doing your patient outcomes suffer. You have the inability to take on as many patients as you would like to take on. Other things are they're hearing the words burnouts, the administrators hearing the words burnout, like my staff is just burnt out. We don't know what to do. We don't have a burnout prevention program. So what does all of that look like? How can like, how can we support them? So those are typical things I'm seeing. So financially, it's hitting them, and then organizationally, they're just hearing frustration consistently from their people.

Claire Davis 8:27

Yeah. Do you think you know, it's interesting burnout, right? I mean, burnout, I feel like it's now this great big buzz, buzzword. Everybody's talking about burnout. Do you think that the definition of burnout or the level of burnout Ness has changed or become different from you know, 10 years ago, maybe from when you were practicing? Does it mean something different now? You know what I mean?

Becky Wolfe 8:50

Yeah. So it's so funny that you say that, because I remember going through rotations, Claire. And I mean, it's a long time ago, I've been a PA now for 17 years, and just not practicing the same way that I used to. But the funny thing is, I remember going into rotations, and there were some of the nurses or other Doc's that I'd be working with, they'd be like, Oh, doctor, so and so it was jaded. That was the term they used. And I'm like, I put like two two together. Now I'm like, Oh, they were burnt out even then, like they were just so sick of the practice of medicine for some reason, whether they were working long hours or something system related. And I don't know exactly what those you know, folks were experiencing. But I think it had to do with that. I think that was a term that we were using pretty frequently before.

Claire Davis 9:33

Oh my gosh, jaded. Yeah, absolutely. So so it sounds like you know, when it comes to being burnt out in I'm sure this isn't blowing anyone's socks off, but it's going to it's going to affect it can affect everyone involved in the patients setting clearly the physicians and our clinical people, but also, office management also then it's affecting finance because it's going to affect the overall health of the business. This. So, gosh, I'm sure many people here are thinking of putting their hands up like, yes, burnout has definitely happened to me. So So where does someone start with with? So now we've identified it, you know, and these are the kinds of things that people are hearing. Your staffs talking about being burnt out your physicians or maybe jaded are now also using the term burnout. I mean, I've met a few people who like this is truly their business is now helping people like you do with battling this burnout. So so what do they do? And how do you help them?

Becky Wolfe 10:33

Yeah, so one of the biggest frustrations I see is people try to throw self care at it. Yeah, oh, man, Nothing drives me more crazy than than that, honestly. Because, you know, pizza parties yoga are supposed to fix everything. And it's not the case, right? Or long walks or bubble baths, or some junk like that, and it doesn't help. Yeah, they're like, Well, we tried to solve it, we were resilient people, we just tried to solve it, and nothing got better. So it is deeper than that. I always say it's transformation. It's not just throwing self care, it is the person understanding themselves on a really deep level. So you know, first, I guess step towards that is acknowledgement, in my opinion, it's like you have to acknowledge something's wrong. And you have to be willing to do something about it, and not just go after self care. When you're talking about transformation, it is a process to walk through. So if somebody's burnt out, it's already six months to a year before they can get back to the normal cognitive function. So it is a long time. And if you're really doing the work that's necessary, that's absolutely true. So you really have to hit it at a level of like, what needs to change in your life? Is it something at home? Is it something at work? Are there conversations you need to have? And it is diagnosing from every angle of like, what is the cause of what's happening here. So when you look at health care, there's in so there's external factors, and there's internal factors, external factors being the system, that you're working in the office, that you're working in the collaboration of the team, your leader, if you can have open communication with them. internal factors is what I'm really targeting. Because you can't change you, the only thing you have is the ability to change is yourself. Right? So I am talking about the internal things like to perfectionism, are you a people pleaser? Are you burning out at both ends, because like he can't bear the thought of somebody else and delegating to someone else. So we're kind of hitting those internal personality constructs, which can cause some issues, if we don't solve those, and it's not really a solve, it's like, deal with them or recognize them. So you can have the potential to work in the opposite direction of them. Yeah, so yeah. So that's, it is a transformative process. So acknowledgement, and willingness to actually go through the process or like the first steps, and then finding a path that's right for you, whether that's a coach, whether that's initially going to therapy, honestly, it's a great thing to do looking at your overall work life balance, people hate that term, and I get it. So what we usually will say is like, how are you integrating work in life? Like, what does that look like? Is that a healthy balance? Or is that not?

Claire Davis 13:19

Well, really like that you're right, there is a real stigma about work life balance, I think a lot of people consider that as, oh, if you have a work life balance, it means you're focused on not being on the job. But really, how else can we be effective if we're not taking care of the whole picture? So when you do this kind of coaching, is it generally individual it? Or is it something you do as a group?

Becky Wolfe 13:43

So it varies? You know, honestly, it varies. So there are some individuals that I start with, and then it can go throughout the team? Or there are some organizations are like, Nope, we need to start with 40 of our leaders. Let's just jump right in. And it depends, honestly, who, who is the administrator or the executive on those teams? Because if they have a vision for expansion, so let's say they're relatively healthy, let's say they're like, Okay, we are, you know, not experiencing crazy amounts of turnover right now. And we have this idea of expansion that's going to be pretty rapid over the next three years, but we need healthy leaders to be in those positions. Those are the people who are like, Yep, let's go ahead jump in. We need 40 people to go and they'll offer it and had a clinic recently that I started working with same thing they're like, we just need to get about 40 people started

Claire Davis 14:34

couple conversations that all that was it. Yeah,

Becky Wolfe 14:37

I'm like, Okay, let's, let's go and then there are other organizations are like, let's start with five or 10. Or let's just start with the, you know, with me first get me healthy and let's go from there.

Claire Davis 14:50

So it's variable, honestly, what and, you know, I've really liked how, you know, part of this is the personal assessment and then understanding where are our strengths side where we need help, or maybe, if you're a perfectionist, what the dark side of that can be, and then how to move forward, it kind of reminds me of a conversation I had with Courtney toric, not too long ago, and she's big on using Strengths Finder to identify where the strengths lie on her team. And when we were talking, she said, Yes, Claire, I mean, we do identify strengths, but understand, every strength has a shadow. And the shadows aren't necessarily a bad thing. But it's something that you can learn so that when you're trying to be at your best, or when you're stuck, it can help us to understand why so so say, you know, I'm a team, and I'm a leader of a team. And I've got, you know, Becky wolf leading us, and we're really learning to understand ourselves and work better together. Like, what are the possibilities for a practice when they do start to implement this kind of leadership in this kind of coaching? Like, what would it what would it used to look like? And what's the possibility for that situation?

Becky Wolfe 16:01

Yeah, so traditional leadership in any organization, not just healthcare specific, but it is, you're really good at your job. Let's go ahead and promote you. Let's go ahead and have you

Claire Davis 16:12

lead five people, and good luck figuring out how to do it.

Becky Wolfe 16:15

Right, exactly. We hope you've had great experiences, because we need that. But alternatively, when you take a step back, and now you can see there are so many things you can use to help you really understand people much faster, it changes the game. So I partner with a company called giant, we use something called Five voices, which is based off Myers Briggs. So that's been data that's been studied for 100 plus years. And the five voices is something that people can understand really easily, and they can understand the tendencies of each voice. So I'm a first first creative connector pioneer, and one of my very best friends, The Guardian, very opposite to me. And I know his tendencies what he needs for me. And for as far as communication, how to bring up like details, he needs a lot more details than I do. So if we're talking about making plans, and like, I have to make sure I have very specific plans for this person, because if I don't, he could get irritated. He doesn't because he cares about me listening, but in a setting if you're talking about an organizational setting, so a company that I work with right now, I have a guardian, who is a leader leads about people. What can happen on the other side of a guardian is they're so task oriented, and they're so good at details and diligence and making sure everything is on time on budget, is they can sometimes not be as personal as other feelers and people might want to I'm a feeler. So I'm like, it can be if I now that I've seen, I'm like, Oh, they're just a guardian, no big deal. Because I know like, that's not there. They're maybe this the warmness and stuff is not typical for them. But for me, I lead with character and like, I love people, so it's easy for me to grab onto that. For them. They're leading with competence of like, I know my job, well, I can do I can crush anything you set for me, right? So if they're leading a group of 10, people who might be feelers, they have to bring a certain warmth to them, they have to bring a certain like, I have to get to know these people, so they know their tendencies. And they have to kind of morph into whatever other people need from them. And then same thing from the people who are in that subset of 10. People, they're like, their guardians. So things come off, maybe a little bit more direct, I get it. So that's like a tangible way, I guess, to understand it, of if you understand your tendencies, and someone else's, it makes communication so much easier.

Claire Davis 18:51

Oh, my gosh, no kidding. And it kind of reminds me of recently, my husband and I were quoting a new project. So we had a company reach out to us and say, hey, it was somebody who was a client of ours before with resumes, and they said, hey, you know, now that I'm leading this organization, can you help us with some content? I said, Yeah, of course, like, you know, we'll do leadership content for your leaders. It's kind of an extension of what we did for him anyway. And so my husband helps me a lot and with business, and he said, Okay, well, we got a quote this project, and I said, Okay, I said, well, with everything he's asking me to do, it's going to be about, you know, this much. This timeline feels about right. Right, I'm sure you're like, now sensing where I'm going with it. And and this is where I would price it. This is when we can deliver and these are the things that will be included in generally these are the people that will be involved. And Chris looks at me and he's like, Okay, can we put some numbers to this? And really, um, you know, we sat there because he because he's much more, you know, analytics and I ended when it comes to this with project management. And so quite literally, it, I felt the heat rise in my body because I was starting to like sweat like I have such a good feel for what things need to look like. But when it comes to penciling them out and that way, it's not generally what I where I begin. And that's what makes us a good team. But it was interesting, because it was really the first time that he and I had put one of these together. And it it really spoke to the differences between our personality types and why we so desperately need each other. So I guess all that is to say, is there like a like a power combo? When it comes to you know, you're looking at an office and you're like, gosh, you guys are all feelers, you really need a guardian, or, you know, if you could hire your next person with sort of these strengths, it would really round out the organization, is there a secret sauce or like, perfect combo.

Becky Wolfe 21:04

So it is helpful to have as many of the voices represented as possible, because they each bring their thing. So and some of them the percentages aren't as high. So like nurturers for example, are 43% of the population. Oh, can you see? Yeah, yeah. So crazy. So they're a very high percentage population, guardians and 30%. So it is, that's already a large majority of the population writes only 3%. Yeah. So when you're thinking about the other voices, who are who are future oriented, there's less of those, but you need them for innovation and driving, like what is new and coming. And the guardians and nurtures are so special, because they are focused on will probably pretty much like your husband, like the numbers and details and data, and the people and the genuine relationships, the relational capacity. Whereas like me, I'm thinking, what's 10 years down the road? Can I bring that like forward, right? So you need all the voices as many as possible, because that's the secret sauce of we have like somebody driving innovation, we have somebody who is like really good with conducting large groups of people. And we have somebody who's really good at the details, so are nurturers and guardians that are really, really strong with details, they, again, will deliver everything on time and on budget, they're just so good at the small things that a lot of the other voices would miss. And the really the good was systems and organization. Then there's the creative, which I'm a first voice creative. So we're thinking furthest out into the future of what could be thinking about large opportunities for people. So innovation is really something that we're strong at and thinking of solutions outside the box. So that's the creative, the connector is probably exactly what you would think it to be. It is the people who just love connecting other people. So have huge relational networks there. They love being able to put people in positions to win. So they'll make the connections between people because they just love seeing advancement with people and growth. And then there's the Pioneer. So they're almost militaristic and how they viewed the world if I can, when I want to leave a legacy, nothing is too big of a picture for me. So they're very, very strategic. So they're thinking towards the future to they're about five years out and looking for opportunity for business most of the time.

Claire Davis 23:31

Oh my gosh, okay, so it for everybody listening. I'm sure as Becky's describing these things, you're thinking, oh, man, like, I'm definitely a three or like, I'm definitely a two and like maybe a little bit of a five. So put in the chat, this will be fun. Put in the chat, which of the five voices you maybe lean most into, or like a couple of them that you're resonating with? And so, you know, back to kind of what you were saying before, it's great if you can have as many of the five voices on one team, because I'm assuming we all are like interlocking pieces here. It's a little bit like a puzzle.

Becky Wolfe 24:08

Yep, it is. It is. So when you have a team and I've seen this work, like the work that I've done over the past few years, it is awesome. When people recognize there's these light bulb moments, they're like, oh my gosh, this is how it's supposed to work. So I was working with a connector and a nurturer. And in our core group session, we're talking about the connector strengths and the nurturer strengths and they beautifully navigated have they worked together in the past and they're in separate stores now it's actually a restaurant but they're in separate stores now but they were like oh my gosh, do you remember when we used to I used to have all these ideas and and then you used to help me out and like narrow them down to what was actually going to work real time. So the nurturer being present oriented like navigate like what's actually going to be possible In the moment, and my connector friend is like, Oh, I've got so many great ideas, because I think we could do this, this, this and this. And then his counterparts like no, not possible, because we don't have these resources. So he narrowed them down. And like, that's beautifully. An example. Oh, yeah. Looks like Yeah. So those are just like two of the voices that were represented. I'm like, That's a beautiful example.

Claire Davis 25:23

Oh, my gosh, this is so fascinating. I don't know, I think there are many things like that I've had to do. And I'm sure many people here listening. I mean, if you're in sales, if you're in medical sales, for sure, you've definitely taken a Myers Briggs, you've probably taken a, you know, the disc, right, you've probably heard of an Enneagram. Because we're always kind of striving to understand ourselves. But I think that it's probably there's probably a great time to start doing this. So like, when would you recommend that somebody? For example, do the five voices? Is it when they become? Is it? Is it when they get into a leadership role? Or is it maybe before that, or maybe it's every couple years, because it can change? When should people do this.

Becky Wolfe 26:09

So as a new leader, it's really helpful because you can understand your leadership voice and understand how people will experience you. So self awareness is the ability to look in the mirror and understand how people may perceive you. So that's always a great idea. The other thing that I would mention too, like doing these for your own growth, is incredibly helpful. Because again, you're in usually some type of relationship with someone, whether that's in a family, or whether that's in soccer, or whatever, you know, whether that's in like community, with church, or whatever that could be, you're in groups of people, so your own growth, it will help you exponential rate that when you're able to do one of these, why this assessment?

Claire Davis 26:55

And, you know, again, as much as it is so helpful to do these assessments, do you think Well, first, do you think that repeating them through your career is a good idea? Or do these generally stay the type of voice or the type of personality trait strength that you are, it's like, it's not going to change.

Becky Wolfe 27:16

So typically, it doesn't change and there can be some discovery for these two. So what happens is leadership behaviors driven by three things nature, so that's usually the personality or wiring, and then nurture, which is how you're brought up the environment in which that you grew through, right. And so schooling, parenting, all those kinds of things in your family, and then the choices that you've made thus far. So those all drive the who you show up as now. So having said that, I'll have people take the assessments, and I'll go through with them live, and sometimes they will shift or change because we've discovered they've taken on what their parents wanted them to be, or what society feels like they should be. So we're uncovering, like, that's not really naturally who they are. And I actually had that experience. I'm like, oh, you know, going through and like, I've gotten to be a nurturer. There's like I was driven to be a nurturer. And then health care and, you know, take care of people. And then I'm like, No, I'm not a nurturer. That's actually my fourth voice. So there's a continuum of the voices so we can recognize that those are not who you are.

Claire Davis 28:18

Got it. Got it. In. Were one of your parents a physician?

Becky Wolfe 28:23

No, no, my mom was in health care, though. She worked in the healthcare setting for her entire career. And here's the thing, I had my parents take this, of course, I'm gonna have my sister's tickets and like, I need to know who I'm dealing with.

Claire Davis 28:38

oh my gosh, I love it. I wish I could have been there for like the first holiday. You all got together after you took these tests.

Becky Wolfe 28:45

Okay, so I, yeah, my mom was a nurturer. My sister, one of my sisters is a nurturer. And then my other sister, The Guardian, and my dad didn't take it. But I let him get off the hook. But so everybody's present Dorian. They're like, in the day to day details are their thing. And I'm left fields. I'm like the oddball in my family.

Becky Wolfe 29:02

Oh my gosh, yeah.

Claire Davis 29:03

So you're looking at your dad, like Dad, you've got two choices. You could be a connector or pioneer, because we need to round this out here. Right? Oh, my gosh, that's so fascinating. So now when you when you relate to your family, even, you know, kind of what their needs are. Maybe the perception of the information you're giving them is affecting them and then understanding their responses at a completely different level.

Becky Wolfe 29:26

Yep, yeah. So my nurturer, sister and I, we connect on a different level. And now she knows the language. She actually uses it in her company. And it is, it's interesting, she's really dove into it. She's like, she recognizes I need some freedom and space. Like that's where I thrive is when I can ideate so we'll be talking on the phone and different things that were like, even like vacation, something as simple as vacation, I'll be like, Yeah, I just need space and she gets it. Whereas before we would schedule our day from like, 8am until like 9pm, right? And I'm like, I I need space to be alone. I need space just to think and like see nature and all these things. And it's so simple, but I never knew to ask for it before. And for them, like being around people like being the internet, like, type family, that's what they wanted. And I got it and like, I'll just go through the motions. But when there's the awareness of what you need, you can ask for it.

Claire Davis 30:22

Oh, my gosh, this is so fascinating to me. And it, it reminds me so my husband is very different, you know, in personality type, which is great.

Becky Wolfe 30:37

Like I said, this business wouldn't run with just one of us, I guess. I've been like, assuming everything and like just creating and then but he brings it back to a real level that gets done by the numbers.

Claire Davis 30:41

But he's also a provider. And I've watched him I think if I had to guess he's not here, which he would laugh at me right now, if I was saying this right now. He's gonna watch this later and be like, really? You talked about me on your podcast? Cool. But I have a feeling he is like some combo of a nurturer and a guardian, maybe? Because he's got those two. This is so fascinating to me. Okay, yeah. So, um, I mean, so for everyone here, who's also now trying to figure out their spouses personality type. You don't have to put that in the chat. But just from this conversation alone, I've taken away some big A's here that I think are really important and things that we want to make sure that we're considering when we go into leadership, or when we're relating to that boss that we kind of can't stand and they just don't get us and we're thinking, listen, it's gonna have to be his way or the highway, and I'm out of there. Or She's driving me nuts. I can't be here. Maybe by understanding our personality and their needs as well, their voice our voice, it could be a way to build that bridge, and instead offer a third door of, there's another way that we can move forward. So a couple of things I've taken away already are the five voices. And thank you so much for sharing with us. So the so we've got the nurturers, guardians, creative connector, and pioneers. And the second thing that you you mentioned right here at the tail end that I love is that there are three major effects of our life on how we lead. And its nature and nurture, which we hear a ton of out in the world, right, but not as much about choices. So I really liked that. And I'm hoping maybe, maybe in the future, we can come back and even just sort of like, you know, drill down on that concept too. But you know, for for people who want to, to become a better leader, and maybe to become the leader, you know, you need, what's the first step that someone can take when they want to improve themselves in this area, or improve a situation at work by better understanding themselves at each other?

Becky Wolfe 33:01

Okay, so I kind of have a two part answer to that. And I love how you said that Claire, that's beautifully articulated, be the leader that you need, because I think that's a different motivator, too. And you're thinking about, like, why would I become like a leader that my boss needs, but and if you do the reframe on that, like, if I become somebody that I would want to be or that I would want to lead me, that's a different reframe on it. So a couple things I think of is do a personality assessment. It doesn't have to be five voices, it can be MBTI, Myers, Briggs, whatever Enneagram could be Strengths Finder, but just kind of learning about your wiring in some capacity. And then the other one is, ask a good question, get really curious, like, it's so simple, but it is a game changer. So just step back, and get really curious about people's motivations. Because when you do that, you're you're kind of inviting them into a conversation. And you're already inviting them into better communication. So if you're struggling to communicate with somebody or build a relationship, take a step back and just get curious, because that will open up in communication relationships from that is unmatched it will change how you how you respond to that person and how they respond to you.

Claire Davis 34:17

Phenomenal, I am sure that just I mean, we've chatted for 30 minutes, and anybody else. Listening is totally inspired as I am because you through your career go through so many tough situations, most of them interpersonal. And this might be just one of the absolute best ways to solve a lot of the problems that feel unfixable. So if anybody else is inspired as I am, I'm sure they want to connect with you and find out more. And what's the best way that they can do that?

Becky Wolfe 34:50

Yeah, so I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. So Becky Wole on LinkedIn, that's a great way or just Becky Beckywolfe.com.

Claire Davis 34:56

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. So you're Recently I am on fire with this conversation. It's also making me it's also bringing up a lot of questions and thoughts about like parenting and what I say to my boys when I pick them up today, you know, and get even more curious about their day. But I just want to thank you so much for what you're doing in healthcare and beyond, because like you said earlier, this isn't limited to the healthcare. Of course, this is a way that leadership can really make huge inroads and fix major issues, and help people to really thrive as a whole. So I am so thankful for what you're doing. Thank you so much, everybody who joined us today. It's great to have you here. Connect with each other in the comments, and do not miss your opportunity. I know you've got a busy day ahead. But Don't miss your opportunity to go check out Becky's profile, make sure you're following her. I learned from her weekly and I'm so so grateful for everything you're doing. So thank you for joining us. And until next time, we will see you later. Thanks.

Becky Wolfe 35:59

Bye. Thanks, Claire. Thank you

Transcribed by https://otter.ai