Medical Innovation and Entrepreneurship

AI-Generated Transcript below. There may be errors.

Claire Davis 0:12

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of today's medical sales leader. I'm your host, Claire Davis. And today I have someone remarkable with me on the show, and I cannot wait to tell you a little bit more about her. But before I do, welcome Dr. Gail Lebovic. It's so great to have you on the show.

Gail Lebovic 0:30

Thank you, Claire. It's wonderful to be here. I appreciate you having me on.

Claire Davis 0:34

Oh, my goodness, I couldn't wait. I, I know I've seen you on a couple of other shows you are everywhere on LinkedIn on live online on Forbes. And so I couldn't wait for my chance. But if I may, I'd love to introduce you and tell everybody here a little bit more about you because you're a world renowned surgeon, a visionary inventor, which we'll talk about here in a minute, and definitely a med tech entrepreneur. So it's a pretty powerful combo, as well as being the driving force behind Silicon Valley innovations incorporated in the creator of the revolutionary nasal cleanse. So I want to thank you personally for the nasal cleanse from the Davis household because I feel like further health will be in our future because of your innovation. So thank you so so much. And your journey from surgical excellence to innovation is really what I want to dive into today. Because I think that it takes something really special to go from the clinical environment. And then also pair it with this incredible business acumen and the vision that you have for these kinds of products. So can you tell us a little bit about maybe what was that initial spark, that you started to think, hmm, I have some I mean, I'm an incredible surgeon already. But there's something else that I want to do here. There's there's something that I have that I want to bring to market, can you tell us about that, kind of switch that transition into your two fold role as clinician and businesswoman?

Gail Lebovic 2:04

I will try. Thanks for that introduction. It's a little scary when I hear all that stuff, it makes me just think, Oh, boy. But it sounds like it was all very organized, you know, and planned. But it actually wasn't. It really was not, it was just a very natural organic thing started a long time before I was a surgeon actually started when I was in medical school. And you know, those days, we didn't have cell phones that we were running around with, we didn't have iPads. So we had little slips of paper in all of our pockets with all the patients informations. And we have to go around, and we'd have to gather all the information. And I literally started by designing a pocket sized notebook with little patient information cards. And it became really popular because everybody looked really organized and you had everything at your fingertips. And so we sold those, my dad sold them around the country, out of his house. And that's how, you know, I realized, wow, you could actually have an idea that's practical, that solves a problem. And you can create it and sell it. Wow, that's kind of cool. And it just became one after the next after the next after the next. So i Someone once said to me, actually Dr. Tom Fogarty once said to me, you know, I'm going to keep you close to me, because I know the people who have ideas, keep having them. And I thought that was so interesting. I didn't know what he meant, but it's so true. So that was how I initially started. But there wasn't really a switch from surgery to, you know, going into med tech. It was I did them in parallel. I was very fortunate. And it started when again, I was at Stanford. So it's a very innovative environment. But this was back in the 90s. And I was taking care of patients like my favorite thing in the world to do. And I got a phone call again from Dr. Fogarty. And he said, Hey, you know, I know you're a breast surgeon, but do you have any ideas in women's health or in breast surgeon? I said, Yeah, heck yeah. And he said, well come to my office tomorrow. And I was like, okay, so we rearrange the schedule and off I went to his office and and that was kind of the beginning of 25 years worth of serial, you know, entrepreneur venture. So it was just one after the other.

Claire Davis 4:49

So, okay, so I was dying to know what happened in this meeting. What happened in this in this meeting with Dr. Fogarty.

Gail Lebovic 4:56

Honestly, I remember exactly where I was sitting, because he was such an iKON in such a legend, still is, obviously. And we sat at his little table. And he is very quiet. He's very careful about what he says, you know. But he said, I have an engineering team. And would you like to work with us? And I said, Yes. It is like history. So I started consulting with one of the companies there and his chief engineer, George Herman. And they were a little bit in trouble, where they were at at this project. And so we just went to the whiteboard and started coming up with ideas and changing direction of the company. For just mostly practical reasons that, you know, later became very important. And that company was very successful. And it's, there's a big story behind really each one, to be honest.

Claire Davis 5:58

Okay, let do you. Do you mind if we dive into this one? Sure. Okay, so tell us a little bit about you know, because you go in and you're, you're fresh in this environment, right? You've got some engineers, you've got the the visionary Dr. Fogarty is like your, we're gonna put this a team together. Here, you come with incredible clinical experience and makes me laugh a little bit that he's like, Do you have any ideas on women's health? Because of course you do. Oh. So So tell me about what was happening? And then what changed? And then what was the result?

Gail Lebovic 6:33

Yeah, so I met with a team of three engineers, again, with a blank white board, which is my favorite thing to do. And they told me about what they were trying to design. And I proceeded to poke holes in it. I'm not sure they were ready for my brutal honesty. But they got it and embraced it at the end of the day. And so, you know, the, the issue really became one that I think is really important. They were looking at this and trying to solve a problem from an engineering standpoint. And from that standpoint, they had done a great job. But they were working in a vacuum, without the clinical side. And on that clinical side, it's not just how a product will perform, you know, anatomically, or if it involves radiation, how is it going to be for planning? It's, it's also about acceptance, adoption, you know, how will the patient's view this? Will they want this in their body? Will they want to use it? You know, will they accept it when the doctor tells them they need it? So that's an important piece, and also physician acceptance and adoption. It's really challenging to bring new products. And when I say new products, I mean, something really novel. You know, that hasn't been done before. This particular project was a an implantable marker after minimally invasive biopsy. So yeah. Are you familiar with that? Yes. Yeah. So before this, what would happen is they would take a little biopsy through a needle. And then if it came back cancer, we the surgeon wouldn't know where that spot was. Right? Big problem. Like, although, you know, you can't feel it. You could see it on the X ray, but it's kind of like, where do I go. And so we did all sorts of things to try to find those lesions like wire localization and other complex things. But at the end of the day, people started putting clips in there. And, you know, it was a marginal improvement, because the clips would move around. So there's fluid in the biopsy cavity, and the clips would move around, sometimes they would spit out. And so what we did was we invented a clip that had a marker in it and was surrounded by collagen. And the collagen when they inserted it into the little biopsy cavity, it would blow up like that. And it would fill that space, and it would hold it in place. So it was, you know, simple, yet an elegant way to solve that problem. And ultimately, Johnson and Johnson bought that marker from us. And they still use it today. That was back in 1997.

Claire Davis 9:38

Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. You know, it's such a clear, definitive result that the patient and the provider are going to get, but like you said, patient adoption and acceptance and physician adoption and acceptance are very different things. So can you tell us a little bit about maybe the tenuous calm association that now you're saying, Okay, well, when it comes to physician adoption, you know, it's going to be a fine line, of course, between, hey, what you've always been doing isn't wrong, it's just that there may be a better option that you can try. So, so what kinds of things helped you navigate that conversation? And how did you end up deciding? This is the message we're going to use when we talk to physicians about how this is going to be beneficial to them, and to help rather than a, you know, a call for fixing what they've always been doing?

Gail Lebovic 10:37

That is a very astute statement. And, you know, it's a nuance that a lot of people miss when they bring a product to market. Right? Because you're, you're gonna step on somebody, somebody's going to take it personally, that, and they're gonna take it like that, like, What do you mean? You mean, I wasn't doing a good enough job, you mean. And so it's something that I've learned over time, which of course, you just figured out, straight out of the chute. But you have to think a lot about the strategic positioning of a new product. And the people who, you know, are going to be upset when you bring this product to market. Sometimes it affects somebody's pocketbook, which is the hardest thing to do. For me, myself, I and my team, we really try to stay focused on just doing the right thing. And I have found that when you do that, and you do the research, so that people understand why you're bringing this product to them. It's a little bit of an easier path. And I also think you have to identify the benefits for everyone, like make it a win win. Because there always is a benefit. I mean, there should be, yeah, if you're gonna go through the trouble of you know, creating something, inventing it, bringing it to market, we want it to have a positive impact on the healthcare environment. And so we kind of stick to that, and stay very focused on it. And it seems to work.

Claire Davis 12:24

You know, it reminds me a little bit about and I know, I know, we talked about this briefly before we jumped on. But it does remind me of something that you talked about in a Forbes article not too long ago about your Northstar, and really the mission that you have with the overall impact you're making on the market here. So do you feel like this? Do you felt like this product? Right, this one that's that's right out the gate, it was absolute winner? Like, clearly, it was an incredible help for women everywhere, going through this biopsy situation. But do you feel like you had that Northstar? Where that mission clarified before? Or maybe was it after, once you started creating more and more products, and then seeing the, you know, like, seeing this mission form as you were building?

Gail Lebovic 13:12

I think it's something that is part of me. You know, I can't explain that part. But I've come to understand that looking back, because people started asking me all the time over and over. How do you do this? How do you do one after the other. And again, it's not planned, it just kind of happens because I absolutely love being able to create something and bring it tomorrow. There's nothing like it. I love surgery. Amazingly, I'd love surgery. But this is different, because surgery is a one on one interaction. You know, you're helping one person, you're impacting their family. It's fabulous. And it's fun. Especially breast reconstruction is like amazing. But when you create a product and 100 million women use that product. It's totally different feeling even though they don't know anything about me. You know, I love that. So it's, it's very cool.

Claire Davis 14:17

That is what an incredible feeling. So, I mean, so now so so let me bring everybody up to speed. So most recently, you've got a product right now that is actually in the e and t space. So can you can you tell us a little bit about Naser cleanse and what that is. And then I'd really like to hear about how you pick a winning idea. Because I think that for someone who has the the vision like you do for products, it I'd love to hear more about, you know how you know, hey, you know I'm coming from breast cancer initially in the medical environment, but I see that the This could be an amazing option for people. This could be an amazing thing for people that could be in. It's not necess, you're not siloed you really have such an expansion, expansive vision for these different products. So can you tell us about Naser cleanse and then and then also how you know, okay, I'm gonna pay attention to this little idea and maybe not that other one?

Gail Lebovic 15:22

That's a great question. Most of the products that I have done before were in women's health, they were not all in breast. Interestingly enough, even though I started with that, I would you know, I'm constantly observing things around me and learning. I love to learn things like I want to learn guitar. Yeah.

Claire Davis 15:43

That's right. We might be having to find some electric guitars. You said your way. Oh, Lonnie, this one.

Gail Lebovic 15:49

So I'd love learning, you know, and it stimulates a lot of ideas. So you're right, you'd have to kind of weed through all the ideas and think about them. I think a lot, you know, but this one was very special. So back in 2008, in the hospital, where I was doing my surgeries breast, and this is where I met Keith mfine. At extraordinaire. Yeah. Yeah. So his operating room was next door to mine. And so it was really kind of, it's really kind of fun to come full circle. So back in 2008, there was a lot of talk about antibiotic resistant bacteria causing post op infections, right. So I started learning about that, because an infection after a breast reconstruction is disastrous, I started learning more and more about it. And this was methicillin resistant staph or MRSA. And I learned that guess what, it is colonized in the nose? Oh, wow. Okay. And about 40% of the world's population? Has it been their nose?

Claire Davis 16:58

Oh, no, like right now?

Gail Lebovic 17:00

No, isn't that interesting?

Claire Davis 17:02

Makes me wonder swab immediately. Yeah.

Gail Lebovic 17:06

And I never, never really truly understood the connection, like, okay, you've got MRSA in your nose, we have to give you vancomycin, we have to do all these things to avoid infection, blah, blah, blah. And after I sold my last company, it was a problem that like, was really bothering me still. So I started reading and researching about it. And I found you know what, there's really not a good solution for this. However, small groups of physicians did recognize that it was coming from the nose happened happens is we touch our face at least seven times an hour.

Claire Davis 17:48

Ah, I can attest to that. Especially small children a lot.

Gail Lebovic 17:54

So the bacteria and viruses obviously get on our hands, which is why washing your hands really does help prevent infection, because it's coming from here. Oh, yeah. Right. So we wash our hands. And I started thinking, But wait a minute, it's in our nose. And a small group, as I mentioned, of physicians, mostly orthopedic surgeons have have tuned into this. And they started treating the nose with antibiotics, which was not a good idea, because then they got other super bacteria. And so they now in many places, I won't say it's standard of care. But in many places, they use beta dying to prep the nose before doing orthopedic implants. Interesting, very, that will reduce post operative infection by 60%. Huge number very effective. And I thought, wow, that is an area ripe for innovation. So I went to work. And my mind automatically drifts towards design, product design. It's just kind of where I go, but I'm not an engineer. So I just started dreaming things up. And I had a vision for what I wanted in my mind and started working with my wonderful team of engineers. And it's fun to look back at kind of what they came up with. And how we morph into what is the design in my head, which is this. I don't know if you've seen our little magic wand. Yeah. But that's it. And it's long way from where I started. So it is fun to do that. Anyway, I started working on that and thinking well, we should make a gel and make this just like a toothbrush so people could clean their nose on a regular basis. Not to make the nose sterile. But to clean the nose, clean it from germs and allergens and there's all sorts Lots of junk, that we inhale through our nose, you know, about 7000 liters is inhaled through the nose a day.

Claire Davis 20:09

Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a huge, huge filter we need. It's a huge filter.

Gail Lebovic 20:13

And the nose is kind of overwhelmed these days with poor air quality allergens and all that other stuff, viruses, bugs. So we created an antiseptic gel to kind of decrease the load, the bacterial load, the viral load, allergens, all that kind of stuff in the nose. And then COVID hit. So I had no intentions, honestly, of doing another company. The last one was my eighth company. And it was, you know, really a great experience. And I had no intentions of doing it again. But when COVID hit, it was kind of one of those crazy. Go again. And then I started looking at the regulatory pathway, the intellectual property, you know, there's a pathway, there's kind of a recipe, because I thought, well, maybe this is a crazy idea. And I ran it by some people, and they're like, You're nuts. Nobody's gonna stick anything up their nose. And I said, well, they stick their finger up their nose every day. Let's retire the finger, right, and have a more sophisticated, effective way to do this. So that's, that's kind of how it started. And then we formed the company. And it's been unbelievable, we have well over 30% growth month over month, it's just like this. Yeah. And it's very effective. against allergies. It's, it's incredible. And I've had a chance to, like, open up this whole new Pandora's box of e and t. That's incredible.

Claire Davis 21:51

And how fun because it's, I mean, it's a new, not a new world, but you know, it's a new specialty where, you know, your, your imagination gets to play fresh, because you've done so much in women's health care and so much in surgery. So that's got to be invigorating for you to tap, tap this new market. It is. I love it.

Gail Lebovic 22:11

And sneak peek, we also have something to follow in the women's health care sector that's going to be similar.

Claire Davis 22:22

Oh, awesome. Yeah. Oh, my goodness, I'm so excited to hear more about that. You only need around two at that time. Dr. Baby. So um, when? Okay, so first I'm, I'm now imagining like, Okay, what was the first iteration of nasal cleanse? Like, I'm imagining, like to sit on the nose? Was it like a, like a flash of light? Like, what? What was the sort of first engineered concept? And how did it change?

Gail Lebovic 22:47

I don't have it handy. But if I can dig it up, I can send you some pictures. It's really funny. It was, I was trying to make it. You know, like I said to them, let's try to make it, you know, as natural as possible, blah, blah, blah. So they kind of had this big blob of wool on a stick. Like, what are those things called a scrubby thing?

Claire Davis 23:10

Oh, like a pipe cleaner? Like a bottle cleaner? Whoa, Unknown

Gail Lebovic 23:14

whoa, whoa, I'm like, No, that's not gonna work.

Claire Davis 23:19

Oh, yeah. It's all in the design. It's all of the design. In though you mentioned Okay, beta design that they were using in the nose was like 60%. Do you know? How has your team seen? You know what sort of results it looks like when they use a nasal cleanse?

Gail Lebovic 23:35

So that's a great question. We do know in allergies, it'll reduce severe congestion, dry, itchy nose, that kind of thing in 84% of patients. Just using it twice a day.

Claire Davis 23:47

Where were you when I was growing up? You know, allergies have plagued our family for decades. And in fact, my boys both have them. So we're gonna have to try this out. We'll send it back to him. Oh, thank you in Spokane, we have a season where there's this sort of release of pine pollen. So anybody here who's tuning in from the Pacific Northwest will attest. There's a week when everything is coated in like a neon green dust and

Gail Lebovic 24:14

yellow sage down here. Oh, it's brutal. Well, then it won't surprise you that 155 million people in the US every year are looking for nasal relief products. So you know, that's part of the research that I do on the front end, like do we really want to do this? Is this really a crazy idea? Because I have to ask that question. Right? No. And and then the deeper I went and still every day I find out. I find out more and more about how important the nose is and how we've overlooked it. We just complete it's in the center of our face.

Claire Davis 24:57

In why we haven't had a solution like This before when we're all I mean, allergies are no stranger to most of us. So this is phenomenal. And do you think? Do you think that? The I asked this question, actually, I think to Keith as well. So So when it comes to creating new products, do you find that when you start to create another product or work with a team and then establish a company, and then you sell it, you know, you're you've got this wonderful track record of releasing really innovative, actually useful, completely different products? Is it a muscle? Or is it? What does that feel like for like the next few because I imagine getting that first or second product off the ground must have felt like an incredible, but also an incredible lift, and maybe a little scary? Because it was new. So now, is it the same? Or is it more like this muscle you've built? And you can kind of see the trajectory? And you can just vet Hey, this is going to fly? This is not? Is it easier now?

Gail Lebovic 26:08

Easier is not the way I would describe it, but I would say yes, innately, I would say yes. Because over time you develop experience. Right? So, but it's hard every time it's hella hard work, you know, 16 hour days and seven days a week, but it's fun. And this is a completely new thing, we actually design this to go down the path on the clinical side, because that's what we're familiar with, right. And we have an entire line of clinical products, nasal cleansers and lubricants to use before scopes, like before doing, you know, nasal pharynx. Skippy, we have that whole thing. But again, COVID hit. So let's not forget, we develop this during COVID supply chain issues we did you know, everything, all of our products are made in the US for that reason. We make everything you know, locally, we do all the packaging ourselves. Yeah, but what I was gonna say is, is it easier? Boy, that's a hard question. There is a little bit of a recipe, you know, but we're learning. And oh, I know what I was gonna say. We developed this going down the clinical path. But we started getting calls from independent pharmacies. And consumers were like, I want this for my allergies, I want this, you know, I'm going on a plane, people who work in difficult environments where the air is dry, like pilots, flight attendants. And so we flipped our model on its head. And this is something that you have to be able to do as an entrepreneur, you have to be flexible, you cannot dig your heels in on a design on a pathway on any you have to be ready to change on a dime, and willing, because otherwise you will not be successful. Sorry. It's just I think it's just the truth.

Claire Davis 28:12

I think that's so brilliant. Most people who develop products, myself included, when I started business and sort of launching offerings, I was absolutely married to what I was going to offer people I thought I knew all their problems, because I had the say, you know, so I was making products for me. But when I was having, you know, a rocky career path. So I was like, This is what I needed. And it was it was a it was a learned skill to become flexible in the way that you're talking about.

Gail Lebovic 28:46

You have to be very open minded. Because you're gonna get feedback and you can't push back. You can't go no, this is you have to listen, you have to really listen. So we flipped everything on its head. We had medical device salespeople lined up, you know, ready to go into the clinic and everything. But we repackaged, we redesigned our packaging, we did everything we realized the same product could be used for the consumer. And we've been very successful on the consumer side. And I think the clinical side will come second. It's kind of the opposite of what we normally would do. So this will the clinical side will come but we need a lot more clinical work to be done first, you know, clinical clinically based evidence getting in there doing a surgical study. We back to the beta Dawn we mentioned beta dying early on beta Dawn Nine kills the cilia in your nose. Little known fact. So you cannot use it every day. You should not use it every day. And it has iodine so some people are allergic to that. We wanted something that was gentle and that actually was designed for the nose Not like let's take another product off the shelf and use it in the nose. So anyway, that's, that's my my foray into en ti for the moment. It's great. I love it.

Claire Davis 30:11

Oh my gosh, I absolutely love it. You know, I think that there is a really special blend of expertise and talent that you have for doing this. And I cannot wait to hear what you are going to do next in the women's health sector. With that that's kind of in the same vein. So how exciting. You know, I'm sure everyone here. If you have not followed Dr. Lebovic. Yet, please make it your first order of business today. I demand it, go find her on LinkedIn, follow her. She's doing great things in this industry. And just from today, a couple of things that I've taken away is that when you were initially approached to develop a product or to start kind of like masterminding on these products, to stay open to those ideas and have that conversation, because I think a lot of times where we feel like we have to come up with all the answers ourselves. Sometimes it's so powerful, just to have that, that that group with their own talents to bounce off of each other. And it sounds like that was an absolute fit, where you're able to go in, hit that blank wall with your notes and poke holes where you will and and really create something special as a team. And I love how you've mentioned your team a bunch just in this one conversation. And then the other thing I wanted to mention is I don't want to glaze over this piece, because you mentioned being flexible, but also that comes with listening deeply to your customer or your target. So it reminds me a lot of you know, a lot of people listening to this podcast today are in the job market, or they're laid off or they're looking for their next startup where they can go and be that visionary or, or work with those engineers or work with incredible surgeons like yourself, creating these products like what I would say to you is go in with that open mind. Because a lot of times if we bring in our preconceived notions, we can block ourselves from the opportunity in front of us and the great ideas of others. So I love your open mindedness. I am so inspired by the vision that you have all the things you've done in healthcare. And I'm, I'm sure one day we'll be doing this podcast and you'll be telling me about the 100th company that you've so. But for those who are as inspired as I am Dr. Lebovic, where can they learn more about Nazer cleanse and connect with you and your team?

Gail Lebovic 32:36

Well, thank you so much, Claire, for all those comments. You can find me on LinkedIn, which is the only social media I do personally. But also at info at nasal cleanse.com. You can get me there.

Claire Davis 32:50

Awesome. Thank you so much. You guys made all of this in the comments. Seriously, Dr. Gail, I cannot thank you enough. I would love to do a second interview with you when that new product comes out. And we cannot wait to follow the success of Naser cleanse. And personally I can't wait to try it out as well with my kids because we've just resigned ourselves for the first month or two of school that we're just going to be sick for like, oh no. So I can't wait to see this just have an impact in our family as well. So we just are so grateful to have you. It's inspiring what you're doing as an entrepreneur and a claim surgeon and for everyone who's tuned in today. Thank you for spending the time with us and make sure you follow Dr. Gail and we'll see you next time on today's medical sales leader.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai