Burnout in Healthcare and Leadership Development

AI-Generated Transcript below. There may be errors.

Claire Davis 0:12

Hello, hello, and welcome back to today's medical sales leader. And today I have somebody really special with me, especially if you are working in a practice or in an organization where sometimes things get a little bit tense or you're kind of feeling off with the communication or the dynamics with your team, which happens everywhere, by the way. So I'm so excited to bring on Becky Wolfe, Becky, how are you today? Thank you so much for joining us,

Becky Wolfe 0:39

Claire, thanks so much for this opportunity to have this conversation with you. I'm super pumped.

Claire Davis 0:45

Oh my gosh, me too. It's been a long time coming. She Becky and I have been friends here. And we met each other here on LinkedIn, gosh, about a year ago. And since then, I have seen an incredible impact that she's having on health care, offices, teams, and so many other people. So though I know she's a woman who needs no introduction, I'm going to talk about exactly what Becky is doing and up to these days. So Becky is a leadership consultant who helps burn out healthcare teams go from surviving to thriving, wouldn't that be nice. And her goal is to help teams communicate and collaborate more effectively to reduce turnover and create cultures where everyone wants to work. So I mean, this is an incredible mission that you have. And I'm pretty sure for everybody here who was listening, they're already thinking of the one or two or 10, places where they've worked, where they've experienced burnout. And I don't know toxic bosses, lots of you know, issues in the workplace. So the work you're doing here is so important. And I would love to first know, you know, where does this passion to figure out what is going on at a practice in between people, and then give them results and opportunities to fix it? Where did that passion stem from for you?

Becky Wolfe 1:59

Yeah, so I My background is that I was a PA for 13 years, and part of my practice was actually become a health coach. And I found out that I loved coaching more than I actually loved being a PA and I didn't hate being a PA, I actually enjoyed that too. But there was something about the ability to help people get what they really wanted, from health coaching. So finding out that consistency with information and accountability, and just kind of walking with somebody to a goal that they had that was just a driver for me, specifically in the coaching space. And then when I stepped back in healthcare and recognized that we weren't really doing what I thought was true health care, it was more so chronic disease management. That was a frustration point for me. So honestly, I started to feel burned out in cardiology because I was trying to make all these changes. And I wanted to see all this change happen. And I wasn't seeing it. So I kind of lost hope in our system. And I think from there, what happened was, I ended up enrolling in the leadership course for myself, because I felt really stuck. And I'm like, I have no idea. I have no language as to why I need something and I cannot figure it out. And I don't know if you've ever been there, Claire, but it's just like this weird feeling of like, if somebody could just help me figure out my life. That would be amazing. So yeah, I enrolled, enrolled in this course for a year and found language, that my personality type it, we actually thrive with helping people get what they want coaching, habit, change, all those types of things. So that's when I recognized I'm like, okay, healthcare, still the space I want to be in, but just in a different capacity.

Claire Davis 3:45

You know, that's so interesting, because I was just reading a book recently that the the overall theme of the book was that healthcare in the West generally is okay, you come into a cardiologist, you're having a weird rhythm, or you're having pain, and we're looking at the body as the function. And what about the function or the structure of the body is broken? But I think something that we've all really tuned into over the last three years, that's COVID, of course, is that our mindset and our internal, our self talk, and our spirit even are a huge part of our health. And it's sometimes went unnoticed when we would go to the doctor because really, you know, we've got to deal with empirical evidence at the at the physician's office, right. So do you feel like sort of this recognition for you of, hey, I know that I'm working in cardiology, but these people actually have something else that needs to be addressed. Was that something that you were recognizing when you felt like, you know, I feel like this I feel like there's more here.

Becky Wolfe 4:56

Yeah, so I would definitely say that stress being one of those things, the We're never talking about in the cardiologists office, right? So I've 1520 minutes to see a patient. So I'm talking about medication side effects and talking about their disease process. So like cardiomyopathy, easy tribulation, congestive heart failure, all those things, we're having to get into the meat of like, what their disease looks like. And then like the very tail end of his conversations, they're like, Yeah, but isn't there anything in my diet, I can change? And I'm like, Hmm, there's something to that, why are we not addressing that? Or like, for those that we're working really long hours, they would still think about that. But then in my mind, I'm thinking, well, how are they even gonna have time to cook or do all those things? So it's really behavior and habits that we're having to focus on. So that's when I got really excited and learning about all those things. But you're absolutely right. Most of medicine isn't dedicated towards those types of practices. It's just disease process, and medication and side effects. And then all of that loop goes over and over again, it's just cyclical to finding the right formula for patients, which has nothing to do with lifestyle change.

Claire Davis 6:05

Yeah. And you know, where do people start with that? I mean, if they're, if someone's saying, okay, something isn't right with me, or my team, or my mindset is, like, funky right now. Like, I just, I'm not myself, you know, how does? How does that present? And what are some of the things maybe that, you know, you look for when you are sitting down with someone who say is like a practice manager or physician. And you're like, Okay, these things are telling me just like, you shared with the, hey, can I change my diet? Like, what are some of the things that you that flagged you to say, Oh, we've got some work to do here.

Becky Wolfe 6:43

Yeah. So that can look a variety of different ways individually, it's usually like, I'm just tired, I'm tired all the time. And I just don't have the same zeal that I had to go to work, even though they know they're like, in the work that they love to do, potentially, there's a lot of other factors besides work, that can contribute to just this level of fatigue. Other things are just like negativity, like, you know, World Health Organization, says it like burnout is decreased professional efficacy, so non, you know, inability to make high level decisions, or it's really hard negativism or cynicism towards some job, and then just really, like a sense of fatigue. So I'll ask like, sometimes if it's the individual, any manifestations that are physical, but a lot of it is like, I just don't feel right. I just and it's like the stuck, overwhelmed feeling frustration. Lack of hope, is a big thing for burnout people that I'm working with, I'm like, I just don't feel like things are gonna change. So those are some of the individual symptoms that I'm looking for. organizationally. Biggest thing is turnover. We can't retain our people. Yeah, we won't. They won't stay. So that's that's a massive issue. Right? If you don't have the staff to do the work that you're doing your patient outcomes suffer. You have the inability to take on as many patients as you would like to take on. Other things are they're hearing the words burnouts, the administrators hearing the words burnout, like my staff is just burnt out. We don't know what to do. We don't have a burnout prevention program. So what does all of that look like? How can like, how can we support them? So those are typical things I'm seeing. So financially, it's hitting them, and then organizationally, they're just hearing frustration consistently from their people.

Claire Davis 8:27

Yeah. Do you think you know, it's interesting burnout, right? I mean, burnout, I feel like it's now this great big buzz, buzzword. Everybody's talking about burnout. Do you think that the definition of burnout or the level of burnout Ness has changed or become different from you know, 10 years ago, maybe from when you were practicing? Does it mean something different now? You know what I mean?

Becky Wolfe 8:50

Yeah. So it's so funny that you say that, because I remember going through rotations, Claire. And I mean, it's a long time ago, I've been a PA now for 17 years, and just not practicing the same way that I used to. But the funny thing is, I remember going into rotations, and there were some of the nurses or other Doc's that I'd be working with, they'd be like, Oh, doctor, so and so it was jaded. That was the term they used. And I'm like, I put like two two together. Now I'm like, Oh, they were burnt out even then, like they were just so sick of the practice of medicine for some reason, whether they were working long hours or something system related. And I don't know exactly what those you know, folks were experiencing. But I think it had to do with that. I think that was a term that we were using pretty frequently before.

Claire Davis 9:33

Oh my gosh, jaded. Yeah, absolutely. So so it sounds like you know, when it comes to being burnt out in I'm sure this isn't blowing anyone's socks off, but it's going to it's going to affect it can affect everyone involved in the patients setting clearly the physicians and our clinical people, but also, office management also then it's affecting finance because it's going to affect the overall health of the business. This. So, gosh, I'm sure many people here are thinking of putting their hands up like, yes, burnout has definitely happened to me. So So where does someone start with with? So now we've identified it, you know, and these are the kinds of things that people are hearing. Your staffs talking about being burnt out your physicians or maybe jaded are now also using the term burnout. I mean, I've met a few people who like this is truly their business is now helping people like you do with battling this burnout. So so what do they do? And how do you help them?

Becky Wolfe 10:33

Yeah, so one of the biggest frustrations I see is people try to throw self care at it. Yeah, oh, man, Nothing drives me more crazy than than that, honestly. Because, you know, pizza parties yoga are supposed to fix everything. And it's not the case, right? Or long walks or bubble baths, or some junk like that, and it doesn't help. Yeah, they're like, Well, we tried to solve it, we were resilient people, we just tried to solve it, and nothing got better. So it is deeper than that. I always say it's transformation. It's not just throwing self care, it is the person understanding themselves on a really deep level. So you know, first, I guess step towards that is acknowledgement, in my opinion, it's like you have to acknowledge something's wrong. And you have to be willing to do something about it, and not just go after self care. When you're talking about transformation, it is a process to walk through. So if somebody's burnt out, it's already six months to a year before they can get back to the normal cognitive function. So it is a long time. And if you're really doing the work that's necessary, that's absolutely true. So you really have to hit it at a level of like, what needs to change in your life? Is it something at home? Is it something at work? Are there conversations you need to have? And it is diagnosing from every angle of like, what is the cause of what's happening here. So when you look at health care, there's in so there's external factors, and there's internal factors, external factors being the system, that you're working in the office, that you're working in the collaboration of the team, your leader, if you can have open communication with them. internal factors is what I'm really targeting. Because you can't change you, the only thing you have is the ability to change is yourself. Right? So I am talking about the internal things like to perfectionism, are you a people pleaser? Are you burning out at both ends, because like he can't bear the thought of somebody else and delegating to someone else. So we're kind of hitting those internal personality constructs, which can cause some issues, if we don't solve those, and it's not really a solve, it's like, deal with them or recognize them. So you can have the potential to work in the opposite direction of them. Yeah, so yeah. So that's, it is a transformative process. So acknowledgement, and willingness to actually go through the process or like the first steps, and then finding a path that's right for you, whether that's a coach, whether that's initially going to therapy, honestly, it's a great thing to do looking at your overall work life balance, people hate that term, and I get it. So what we usually will say is like, how are you integrating work in life? Like, what does that look like? Is that a healthy balance? Or is that not?

Claire Davis 13:19

Well, really like that you're right, there is a real stigma about work life balance, I think a lot of people consider that as, oh, if you have a work life balance, it means you're focused on not being on the job. But really, how else can we be effective if we're not taking care of the whole picture? So when you do this kind of coaching, is it generally individual it? Or is it something you do as a group?

Becky Wolfe 13:43

So it varies? You know, honestly, it varies. So there are some individuals that I start with, and then it can go throughout the team? Or there are some organizations are like, Nope, we need to start with 40 of our leaders. Let's just jump right in. And it depends, honestly, who, who is the administrator or the executive on those teams? Because if they have a vision for expansion, so let's say they're relatively healthy, let's say they're like, Okay, we are, you know, not experiencing crazy amounts of turnover right now. And we have this idea of expansion that's going to be pretty rapid over the next three years, but we need healthy leaders to be in those positions. Those are the people who are like, Yep, let's go ahead jump in. We need 40 people to go and they'll offer it and had a clinic recently that I started working with same thing they're like, we just need to get about 40 people started

Claire Davis 14:34

couple conversations that all that was it. Yeah,

Becky Wolfe 14:37

I'm like, Okay, let's, let's go and then there are other organizations are like, let's start with five or 10. Or let's just start with the, you know, with me first get me healthy and let's go from there.

Claire Davis 14:50

So it's variable, honestly, what and, you know, I've really liked how, you know, part of this is the personal assessment and then understanding where are our strengths side where we need help, or maybe, if you're a perfectionist, what the dark side of that can be, and then how to move forward, it kind of reminds me of a conversation I had with Courtney toric, not too long ago, and she's big on using Strengths Finder to identify where the strengths lie on her team. And when we were talking, she said, Yes, Claire, I mean, we do identify strengths, but understand, every strength has a shadow. And the shadows aren't necessarily a bad thing. But it's something that you can learn so that when you're trying to be at your best, or when you're stuck, it can help us to understand why so so say, you know, I'm a team, and I'm a leader of a team. And I've got, you know, Becky wolf leading us, and we're really learning to understand ourselves and work better together. Like, what are the possibilities for a practice when they do start to implement this kind of leadership in this kind of coaching? Like, what would it what would it used to look like? And what's the possibility for that situation?

Becky Wolfe 16:01

Yeah, so traditional leadership in any organization, not just healthcare specific, but it is, you're really good at your job. Let's go ahead and promote you. Let's go ahead and have you

Claire Davis 16:12

lead five people, and good luck figuring out how to do it.

Becky Wolfe 16:15

Right, exactly. We hope you've had great experiences, because we need that. But alternatively, when you take a step back, and now you can see there are so many things you can use to help you really understand people much faster, it changes the game. So I partner with a company called giant, we use something called Five voices, which is based off Myers Briggs. So that's been data that's been studied for 100 plus years. And the five voices is something that people can understand really easily, and they can understand the tendencies of each voice. So I'm a first first creative connector pioneer, and one of my very best friends, The Guardian, very opposite to me. And I know his tendencies what he needs for me. And for as far as communication, how to bring up like details, he needs a lot more details than I do. So if we're talking about making plans, and like, I have to make sure I have very specific plans for this person, because if I don't, he could get irritated. He doesn't because he cares about me listening, but in a setting if you're talking about an organizational setting, so a company that I work with right now, I have a guardian, who is a leader leads about people. What can happen on the other side of a guardian is they're so task oriented, and they're so good at details and diligence and making sure everything is on time on budget, is they can sometimes not be as personal as other feelers and people might want to I'm a feeler. So I'm like, it can be if I now that I've seen, I'm like, Oh, they're just a guardian, no big deal. Because I know like, that's not there. They're maybe this the warmness and stuff is not typical for them. But for me, I lead with character and like, I love people, so it's easy for me to grab onto that. For them. They're leading with competence of like, I know my job, well, I can do I can crush anything you set for me, right? So if they're leading a group of 10, people who might be feelers, they have to bring a certain warmth to them, they have to bring a certain like, I have to get to know these people, so they know their tendencies. And they have to kind of morph into whatever other people need from them. And then same thing from the people who are in that subset of 10. People, they're like, their guardians. So things come off, maybe a little bit more direct, I get it. So that's like a tangible way, I guess, to understand it, of if you understand your tendencies, and someone else's, it makes communication so much easier.

Claire Davis 18:51

Oh, my gosh, no kidding. And it kind of reminds me of recently, my husband and I were quoting a new project. So we had a company reach out to us and say, hey, it was somebody who was a client of ours before with resumes, and they said, hey, you know, now that I'm leading this organization, can you help us with some content? I said, Yeah, of course, like, you know, we'll do leadership content for your leaders. It's kind of an extension of what we did for him anyway. And so my husband helps me a lot and with business, and he said, Okay, well, we got a quote this project, and I said, Okay, I said, well, with everything he's asking me to do, it's going to be about, you know, this much. This timeline feels about right. Right, I'm sure you're like, now sensing where I'm going with it. And and this is where I would price it. This is when we can deliver and these are the things that will be included in generally these are the people that will be involved. And Chris looks at me and he's like, Okay, can we put some numbers to this? And really, um, you know, we sat there because he because he's much more, you know, analytics and I ended when it comes to this with project management. And so quite literally, it, I felt the heat rise in my body because I was starting to like sweat like I have such a good feel for what things need to look like. But when it comes to penciling them out and that way, it's not generally what I where I begin. And that's what makes us a good team. But it was interesting, because it was really the first time that he and I had put one of these together. And it it really spoke to the differences between our personality types and why we so desperately need each other. So I guess all that is to say, is there like a like a power combo? When it comes to you know, you're looking at an office and you're like, gosh, you guys are all feelers, you really need a guardian, or, you know, if you could hire your next person with sort of these strengths, it would really round out the organization, is there a secret sauce or like, perfect combo.

Becky Wolfe 21:04

So it is helpful to have as many of the voices represented as possible, because they each bring their thing. So and some of them the percentages aren't as high. So like nurturers for example, are 43% of the population. Oh, can you see? Yeah, yeah. So crazy. So they're a very high percentage population, guardians and 30%. So it is, that's already a large majority of the population writes only 3%. Yeah. So when you're thinking about the other voices, who are who are future oriented, there's less of those, but you need them for innovation and driving, like what is new and coming. And the guardians and nurtures are so special, because they are focused on will probably pretty much like your husband, like the numbers and details and data, and the people and the genuine relationships, the relational capacity. Whereas like me, I'm thinking, what's 10 years down the road? Can I bring that like forward, right? So you need all the voices as many as possible, because that's the secret sauce of we have like somebody driving innovation, we have somebody who is like really good with conducting large groups of people. And we have somebody who's really good at the details, so are nurturers and guardians that are really, really strong with details, they, again, will deliver everything on time and on budget, they're just so good at the small things that a lot of the other voices would miss. And the really the good was systems and organization. Then there's the creative, which I'm a first voice creative. So we're thinking furthest out into the future of what could be thinking about large opportunities for people. So innovation is really something that we're strong at and thinking of solutions outside the box. So that's the creative, the connector is probably exactly what you would think it to be. It is the people who just love connecting other people. So have huge relational networks there. They love being able to put people in positions to win. So they'll make the connections between people because they just love seeing advancement with people and growth. And then there's the Pioneer. So they're almost militaristic and how they viewed the world if I can, when I want to leave a legacy, nothing is too big of a picture for me. So they're very, very strategic. So they're thinking towards the future to they're about five years out and looking for opportunity for business most of the time.

Claire Davis 23:31

Oh my gosh, okay, so it for everybody listening. I'm sure as Becky's describing these things, you're thinking, oh, man, like, I'm definitely a three or like, I'm definitely a two and like maybe a little bit of a five. So put in the chat, this will be fun. Put in the chat, which of the five voices you maybe lean most into, or like a couple of them that you're resonating with? And so, you know, back to kind of what you were saying before, it's great if you can have as many of the five voices on one team, because I'm assuming we all are like interlocking pieces here. It's a little bit like a puzzle.

Becky Wolfe 24:08

Yep, it is. It is. So when you have a team and I've seen this work, like the work that I've done over the past few years, it is awesome. When people recognize there's these light bulb moments, they're like, oh my gosh, this is how it's supposed to work. So I was working with a connector and a nurturer. And in our core group session, we're talking about the connector strengths and the nurturer strengths and they beautifully navigated have they worked together in the past and they're in separate stores now it's actually a restaurant but they're in separate stores now but they were like oh my gosh, do you remember when we used to I used to have all these ideas and and then you used to help me out and like narrow them down to what was actually going to work real time. So the nurturer being present oriented like navigate like what's actually going to be possible In the moment, and my connector friend is like, Oh, I've got so many great ideas, because I think we could do this, this, this and this. And then his counterparts like no, not possible, because we don't have these resources. So he narrowed them down. And like, that's beautifully. An example. Oh, yeah. Looks like Yeah. So those are just like two of the voices that were represented. I'm like, That's a beautiful example.

Claire Davis 25:23

Oh, my gosh, this is so fascinating. I don't know, I think there are many things like that I've had to do. And I'm sure many people here listening. I mean, if you're in sales, if you're in medical sales, for sure, you've definitely taken a Myers Briggs, you've probably taken a, you know, the disc, right, you've probably heard of an Enneagram. Because we're always kind of striving to understand ourselves. But I think that it's probably there's probably a great time to start doing this. So like, when would you recommend that somebody? For example, do the five voices? Is it when they become? Is it? Is it when they get into a leadership role? Or is it maybe before that, or maybe it's every couple years, because it can change? When should people do this.

Becky Wolfe 26:09

So as a new leader, it's really helpful because you can understand your leadership voice and understand how people will experience you. So self awareness is the ability to look in the mirror and understand how people may perceive you. So that's always a great idea. The other thing that I would mention too, like doing these for your own growth, is incredibly helpful. Because again, you're in usually some type of relationship with someone, whether that's in a family, or whether that's in soccer, or whatever, you know, whether that's in like community, with church, or whatever that could be, you're in groups of people, so your own growth, it will help you exponential rate that when you're able to do one of these, why this assessment?

Claire Davis 26:55

And, you know, again, as much as it is so helpful to do these assessments, do you think Well, first, do you think that repeating them through your career is a good idea? Or do these generally stay the type of voice or the type of personality trait strength that you are, it's like, it's not going to change.

Becky Wolfe 27:16

So typically, it doesn't change and there can be some discovery for these two. So what happens is leadership behaviors driven by three things nature, so that's usually the personality or wiring, and then nurture, which is how you're brought up the environment in which that you grew through, right. And so schooling, parenting, all those kinds of things in your family, and then the choices that you've made thus far. So those all drive the who you show up as now. So having said that, I'll have people take the assessments, and I'll go through with them live, and sometimes they will shift or change because we've discovered they've taken on what their parents wanted them to be, or what society feels like they should be. So we're uncovering, like, that's not really naturally who they are. And I actually had that experience. I'm like, oh, you know, going through and like, I've gotten to be a nurturer. There's like I was driven to be a nurturer. And then health care and, you know, take care of people. And then I'm like, No, I'm not a nurturer. That's actually my fourth voice. So there's a continuum of the voices so we can recognize that those are not who you are.

Claire Davis 28:18

Got it. Got it. In. Were one of your parents a physician?

Becky Wolfe 28:23

No, no, my mom was in health care, though. She worked in the healthcare setting for her entire career. And here's the thing, I had my parents take this, of course, I'm gonna have my sister's tickets and like, I need to know who I'm dealing with.

Claire Davis 28:38

oh my gosh, I love it. I wish I could have been there for like the first holiday. You all got together after you took these tests.

Becky Wolfe 28:45

Okay, so I, yeah, my mom was a nurturer. My sister, one of my sisters is a nurturer. And then my other sister, The Guardian, and my dad didn't take it. But I let him get off the hook. But so everybody's present Dorian. They're like, in the day to day details are their thing. And I'm left fields. I'm like the oddball in my family.

Becky Wolfe 29:02

Oh my gosh, yeah.

Claire Davis 29:03

So you're looking at your dad, like Dad, you've got two choices. You could be a connector or pioneer, because we need to round this out here. Right? Oh, my gosh, that's so fascinating. So now when you when you relate to your family, even, you know, kind of what their needs are. Maybe the perception of the information you're giving them is affecting them and then understanding their responses at a completely different level.

Becky Wolfe 29:26

Yep, yeah. So my nurturer, sister and I, we connect on a different level. And now she knows the language. She actually uses it in her company. And it is, it's interesting, she's really dove into it. She's like, she recognizes I need some freedom and space. Like that's where I thrive is when I can ideate so we'll be talking on the phone and different things that were like, even like vacation, something as simple as vacation, I'll be like, Yeah, I just need space and she gets it. Whereas before we would schedule our day from like, 8am until like 9pm, right? And I'm like, I I need space to be alone. I need space just to think and like see nature and all these things. And it's so simple, but I never knew to ask for it before. And for them, like being around people like being the internet, like, type family, that's what they wanted. And I got it and like, I'll just go through the motions. But when there's the awareness of what you need, you can ask for it.

Claire Davis 30:22

Oh, my gosh, this is so fascinating to me. And it, it reminds me so my husband is very different, you know, in personality type, which is great.

Becky Wolfe 30:37

Like I said, this business wouldn't run with just one of us, I guess. I've been like, assuming everything and like just creating and then but he brings it back to a real level that gets done by the numbers.

Claire Davis 30:41

But he's also a provider. And I've watched him I think if I had to guess he's not here, which he would laugh at me right now, if I was saying this right now. He's gonna watch this later and be like, really? You talked about me on your podcast? Cool. But I have a feeling he is like some combo of a nurturer and a guardian, maybe? Because he's got those two. This is so fascinating to me. Okay, yeah. So, um, I mean, so for everyone here, who's also now trying to figure out their spouses personality type. You don't have to put that in the chat. But just from this conversation alone, I've taken away some big A's here that I think are really important and things that we want to make sure that we're considering when we go into leadership, or when we're relating to that boss that we kind of can't stand and they just don't get us and we're thinking, listen, it's gonna have to be his way or the highway, and I'm out of there. Or She's driving me nuts. I can't be here. Maybe by understanding our personality and their needs as well, their voice our voice, it could be a way to build that bridge, and instead offer a third door of, there's another way that we can move forward. So a couple of things I've taken away already are the five voices. And thank you so much for sharing with us. So the so we've got the nurturers, guardians, creative connector, and pioneers. And the second thing that you you mentioned right here at the tail end that I love is that there are three major effects of our life on how we lead. And its nature and nurture, which we hear a ton of out in the world, right, but not as much about choices. So I really liked that. And I'm hoping maybe, maybe in the future, we can come back and even just sort of like, you know, drill down on that concept too. But you know, for for people who want to, to become a better leader, and maybe to become the leader, you know, you need, what's the first step that someone can take when they want to improve themselves in this area, or improve a situation at work by better understanding themselves at each other?

Becky Wolfe 33:01

Okay, so I kind of have a two part answer to that. And I love how you said that Claire, that's beautifully articulated, be the leader that you need, because I think that's a different motivator, too. And you're thinking about, like, why would I become like a leader that my boss needs, but and if you do the reframe on that, like, if I become somebody that I would want to be or that I would want to lead me, that's a different reframe on it. So a couple things I think of is do a personality assessment. It doesn't have to be five voices, it can be MBTI, Myers, Briggs, whatever Enneagram could be Strengths Finder, but just kind of learning about your wiring in some capacity. And then the other one is, ask a good question, get really curious, like, it's so simple, but it is a game changer. So just step back, and get really curious about people's motivations. Because when you do that, you're you're kind of inviting them into a conversation. And you're already inviting them into better communication. So if you're struggling to communicate with somebody or build a relationship, take a step back and just get curious, because that will open up in communication relationships from that is unmatched it will change how you how you respond to that person and how they respond to you.

Claire Davis 34:17

Phenomenal, I am sure that just I mean, we've chatted for 30 minutes, and anybody else. Listening is totally inspired as I am because you through your career go through so many tough situations, most of them interpersonal. And this might be just one of the absolute best ways to solve a lot of the problems that feel unfixable. So if anybody else is inspired as I am, I'm sure they want to connect with you and find out more. And what's the best way that they can do that?

Becky Wolfe 34:50

Yeah, so I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. So Becky Wole on LinkedIn, that's a great way or just Becky Beckywolfe.com.

Claire Davis 34:56

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. So you're Recently I am on fire with this conversation. It's also making me it's also bringing up a lot of questions and thoughts about like parenting and what I say to my boys when I pick them up today, you know, and get even more curious about their day. But I just want to thank you so much for what you're doing in healthcare and beyond, because like you said earlier, this isn't limited to the healthcare. Of course, this is a way that leadership can really make huge inroads and fix major issues, and help people to really thrive as a whole. So I am so thankful for what you're doing. Thank you so much, everybody who joined us today. It's great to have you here. Connect with each other in the comments, and do not miss your opportunity. I know you've got a busy day ahead. But Don't miss your opportunity to go check out Becky's profile, make sure you're following her. I learned from her weekly and I'm so so grateful for everything you're doing. So thank you for joining us. And until next time, we will see you later. Thanks.

Becky Wolfe 35:59

Bye. Thanks, Claire. Thank you

Transcribed by https://otter.ai