Bridging the Gap within the Medical World
AI-Generated Transcript below. There may be errors.
Claire Davis 1:40
Hello and welcome back to another episode of today's medical sales leader. I'm your host is Claire Davis. And today I have someone very exceptionally interesting with me today someone who really is the combo of the clinical side and the strategy side and the entrepreneur side. So it's none other than Spencer Jones. And today, I am absolutely thrilled to have him joining me. So thanks for joining me today, Spencer.
Spencer Jones 2:06
Well, thanks for having me on here, Claire. I'm thrilled and honored.
Claire Davis 2:09
Awesome. So let me introduce you really quick. And then we're going to get into the tough stuff because I know that you have a ton to offer this space and I cannot wait to dig into that with you. So if you haven't met Spencer yet, after working as a nurse, he became frustrated with the inefficiencies that he experienced and was determined to improve the delivery of health care, which I think we can all relate to, especially today. And in 2014. He won the Ark challenge business accelerator with his patent, dual lumen peripheral IV want to make sure I get this exactly right. It's called be VAT. Is that what you call be bad? That's right. Yeah. And it focuses on painless and uncontaminated blood draws. So in 2015, he patented his second device safe brake vascular, which I think I just saw you post about just the other day, and he then founded Linnaeus medical where he successfully ushered safe break through de novo clearance well done, as well as the FDA double win. And Spencer is currently the CTO and VP of sales at lap of patients, a laparoscopic surgical device company. And in his spare time, he consults for Life Science startups in the orthopedic space. So he enjoys mentoring early stage ventures and playing golf when he can. So I mean, if that's not enough, what don't you do Spencer, baby, we need to have a show on that. But I'm, I'm absolutely thrilled to have you here. Because one thing that stood out to me was when it comes to healthcare, and the real innovation that is here. I'm inspired by people like you who have a clinical background and the entrepreneur background and know how to leverage it to not just make great products, but make great things happen with those products. So can you share a little bit about what kind of perspective you're able to bring to this industry because of your background as a nurse? So you've got the clinical and entrepreneurship?
Spencer Jones 4:07
yeah, and those great question. You know, being a nurse shaped pretty much everything and I still reference my nursing now nursing knowledge in virtually everything I do, from product development, to sales to marketing. You know, I never had the itch to do entrepreneurship or med device innovation at all, I was thought I was going to do anesthesia. You know, it's what my dad did. I thought I was gonna follow in his footsteps. You know, but but, you know, I've said this before, I think nurses, you know, particularly have a really good skill set that is largely adaptable for entrepreneurship and innovation. You know, they have to think, think on their feet are constantly solving problems. They have to work across interdisciplinary teams with respiratory techs and physicians and you name it, but I think you know, when to be a good nurse, you really have to have an understanding of anatomy and physiology, pharmacology pharmacokinetics you have to know how to use these devices, and even stuff that you're not tasked with, you know, necessarily doing yourself, you still have to have a really good understanding of. And so I think all of those things gave me a really, really good foundation, you know, to step into a med device world and, you know, all the clinical stuff, you know, to me is easy. And I did have those a steep learning curve learning the business development and finance and, you know, the accounting and all that stuff that goes along with innovation and entrepreneurship. But it, I'd say, in short, you know, my clinical background, as a nurse gave me that foundation of, you know, understanding all the different kinds of healthcare delivery, you know, rehab, inpatient, outpatient surgery, all all of those different care areas, as well as kind of the anatomy and pharmacology and a device knowledge that you just have to know, as a nurse.
Claire Davis 5:50
I feel like the nurses I know and have met, you know, been fortunate enough to even receive care from, they tend to see the details that other people miss, because there's the greater goal and the protocol. But the nursing staff are the ones who are getting the real time data, and then leveraging what they find and often uncovering those things that other people aren't necessarily seeing, because they're not quite so close. So I'm so grateful that people like you are involved at the ground floor with products like these, because I know that you're thinking of it as such a to such an in depth detail. And it's, it's really exciting to see that. When did you first think, you know, I want to take my clinical acumen and pair it with sales and business development and create something or, or I saw that you're involved in some of those, kind of like Innovation Roundtable groups. So when did it shift for you? And you're like, Sorry, Dad, I'm not going to do anesthesia. I think I've got this other path.
Spencer Jones 6:49
Yeah, no, I mean, it, it didn't happen kind of all at once, really, I started to kind of tinker around and, you know, draw things out and talk to some people way smarter than me and get some good advice from them. And, you know, I was, you know, had done the completed the art challenge accelerator in 2014. And was still working full time as a registered nurse doing the night shift on a med surg floor. And, you know, I did not have a trust fund and was not like independently wealthy, I was 24. And at the time, nurses back then I think I started out around 20 bucks an hour. And so like, I couldn't quit my job, right. And even after I'd gotten some of that seed capital from the accelerator, I was not ready to take that leap. Yet, I'm pretty risk averse in a lot of ways. And so once I got into that next accelerator called zero to 510, that was May of 2015, they told me this, and that was 50k of initial capital, right. So there was that a little bit of that safety blanket, I knew some of that would, would be able to go to supporting me, you know, via salary. But they told me that I had to move to Memphis full time for three, three and a half months to do that program. And so that was kind of the you know, you know, water get off the pot moment, right? I remember when that accelerator program was over, I was like, the knowledge I have now on dangerous, I realized kind of like, you know, having that clinical skill set, and then learning all the stuff about innovation and entrepreneurship that I did, that I kind of held a really unique set of skills, right? You don't have to be the best at one thing. But if you're really, really good at a unique combination of those, you can be a, you know, a pretty versatile athlete in terms of, you know, business or innovation professional. So that was, you know, in the end of 2015. After that accelerator, that's when I said, Okay, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life, I think.
Claire Davis 8:37
Yeah, yeah, no kidding. I mean, you're, you're on fire with it, then. So you mentioned mentors, who were some of the formative people who you met maybe early on, that got you really interested in continuing to pursue it. Because in my experience, it's not just being exposed to this kind of business accelerator. It's like getting in with that circle of people who are just as passionate as you are.
Spencer Jones 9:02
Yeah, no, I mean, it's a great question. There is like, Sir, there's so many. I'll say, you know, everybody at the venture center, innovate Arkansas. You know, Mike Smith, Ted Dickey, those are the entrepreneurs support organizations around Arkansas, startup junkie, Jeff and Mariah and the entire team there, they were really instrumental in kind of that initial like, Hey, you have something here. You know, we believe in this you should keep running with it. Right? Because people are having that confidence in you. And not blind confidence, right? They need to tell you, Hey, you should shut this down. But then having that constant competence in me was huge. When I went to Memphis though, you know, James Bell, Allen Daisley, they were running the program, you know, Jordan Nickleby. He was one of my first hires an engineer believed in me it was huge to have somebody kind of alongside me doing it you know, Matt Cox on the IP list delay, you know, kind of taught me the legal ropes a bit Jamie few get through Is my counsel initially and then honestly, on, you know, a whole host, like too many people to count from that point on. But you know, and Don Norman, with regulatory she's a partner at MRC global, but it was just this cast of characters that I can lean on for whether it was regulatory IP, you know, bizdev legal. And just having those people kind of in my wings early on was huge.
Claire Davis 10:27
Mm hmm. You know, kind of down the same vein of mentorship. I think that nowadays, people have come around to the idea that if you want to grow, and specifically in this arena, mentorship isn't necessarily new. But if you want to see faster results, it is necessary. So can you give us a you know, advice, or even a story on maybe how you connected with a mentor, because I think that there are a lot of people who think that's a great idea, I would love to get a mentor, but might not necessarily have a game plan. So what's something you might share with a, say, say, a budding, you know, regional manager, or maybe someone who's got aspirations to go into commercialization eventually, and developing those mentor relationships?
Spencer Jones 11:14
Ya know, it's, it's, it's not something that seems super straightforward when you're looking at it from the outside, you know, those entrepreneurial support organizations that I mentioned, every state and every locality has their version and their flavor of those groups. So if you know, if you're looking for a mentor, I would definitely contact one of those groups, you know, your economic, if you're still striking out, you can't find them, you know, your your state's economic development commission, someone from that office, should be able to point you in the right direction, or potentially your chamber of commerce from your city or your region. But that's a good avenue to connect with them. You know, I also say, don't be afraid to reach out to someone on LinkedIn, you know, and say, Hey, I'm really interested in this, I just love to pick your brain, do you have 15 minutes, right, that's always, you know, you'd be surprised at how many people you know, will take that call and, and respond to you. You know, accelerator programs are another one. You know, anytime you can find the group doing office hours, which for those kind of not in the space, like an office hours, just, you know, they'll have an attorney come to a lunch for an hour and a half, and people get five to 15 minutes with them. And it's kind of like free, like, you know, free advice, free guidance. So those are always great, too. But I think just getting plugged in, is really key when you're trying to get into you know, any career shift, or pivot or getting into entrepreneurship or innovation, like you really have to get plugged in with the right groups. And then they can be that conduit, that connective tissue between you and a mentor. And I'd say I'd say to, you know, information is so democratized these days, I could see some people saying, well, I can just, you know, I can just ask chat GP, and that will give me any guidance or advice, and I love to educate I use it. So this is not a knock on chat. GBT. But you know, as, as you'll understand, and, you know, whether it's commercialization and finding the right contract manufacturer, or hiring the right salesperson, or raising capital, or sales in general, you know, relationships are everything, and it's so important to develop and foster those good relationships. And, you know, you develop your own brand, you develop your own, you know, kind of identity and reputation. And, and so, you know, cultivating good mentors is another way to do that.
Claire Davis 13:25
Mm hmm. I like how, you know, among other areas, you really develop this sort of brand niche for helping, especially in life science, and also in the Ortho space. So, I'm sure after having consulted this many companies and worked through this many products, there are probably some patterns that you see with early venture startups and innovators who are just trying to figure out how to take their great idea, from their mind to the team to the market. So what are some of the things that you often find your clients asking for? Like, what are some of the common questions that you're presented with with over the years that you've that you've noticed?
Spencer Jones 14:09
Yeah. There's a lot of bad questions. You're presented here, yes, or? No, I think I mean, you know, the lot of I'll kind of start with a lot of the questions that I get that I wish I didn't get, you know, there'll be a lot of people that you'll say, you know, what do you have, like, you'll just have a call with them, and you're just trying to get it, you know, check the temperature on where they are as a business where they are is adventure, you know, say, hey, alright, do you have a pitch deck? Do you have a business plan? Have you done any surveys with customers? Have you done any research on, you know, how much the competitive thing is going for how much they're paying to solve this problem currently? And they'll say no, but I'm just I just want you to help me find someone to make this. Right. And it's like, that is not the approach to take. You know, you could make prototypes and stuff till you're blue in the face. But if you can't prove Clinical superiority. If you don't know if it can't be priced effectively, if you don't understand the reimbursement environment, if you haven't talked to your customers, the end users and intimately understood the problem that you're trying to solve, from their point of view, not your point of view, then how do you even know what you're gonna be building is the right thing, right? How you know, the price, you can build it out, it's going to be viable in the marketplace. So, you know, people will come and say, How do I build this? Can you help me build this or find a contract manufacturer? And I just want to take like, nine steps back and be like, Look, you need to do a lot more research a lot more interviews. But that is, that's usually a question that I get, and then I'll ask them the questions of have you done all these things? You know, I'd say to for, you know, fun. Another question I feel like is more common these days is around fundraising. And, you know, the capital markets have changed a ton, you know, hit, you know, eight years ago, seven years ago, you could, you know, investors were, you know, trying to win you over, right, and now, they're incredibly, you know, close to the chest with their capital, they're trying to preserve dry powder for their existing portfolio companies that may be struggling. And it's, it's a lot harder to get them to depart from their capital. So, you know, I've seen a lot of startups that are looking for to finish off rounds, or or, you know, having trouble starting rounds, or looking for kind of bridge funding, or those types of things. So that's one of the common questions, you know, kind of questions or concerns that I'm getting these days.
Claire Davis 16:30
Is there a different strategy that you take now that maybe you wouldn't have recommended three, four years ago because of the market? And and what people are willing to invest now?
Spencer Jones 16:40
Yeah, absolutely. I don't think it's like a paradigm shift or anything, but I think there are things you can do on the margins, I think, you know, you can raise funds whenever you want, right, but I think the amount of traction, you should expect that they want should be up, right, you should increase they, they're going to want to see more traction earlier. Right. valuations have been depressed a little bit. So don't think you're gonna go out there and, you know, raise 50 million or, you know, raise, you know, $10 million at a 250 million valuation, it's not gonna happen. Right. So valuations have been depressed a bit, you know, I saw a report that it was about, I think it was nine or 10%, of, you know, convertible note deals. In the past year, the past couple quarters had it, like at least 1.2 or 1.5, liquidation preferences, right. So, those are things that you didn't see in deals, you know, six, seven years ago. So I think you can, you know, make sure you're have a conservative valuation, make sure you're coming to the table with a lot more clinical validation, whether it's cadaver lab work, customer traction, customer commitments, that's a big one, if you can get you know, that pilot users trial users, but then on the term sheet side, you know, don't, you know, you may have to, you know, do some things like liquidation preferences, you know, different discount rates, you know, instead of 15, or 20%, you may have to give them a 25% discount rate, right, on a convertible note. So, there's just a lot of levers that you used to not have to pull. But I think today, it's becoming more and more common for you to, for you to have to go and pull those levers to attract and kind of get an investor over the finish line.
Claire Davis 18:21
You know, from the that's such a great, you bring up such a great point. And the reverse engineering that you're talking about, from what we're finding out as far as the utility and the real interest that there would be in the in the market is so important. I was just talking with a gentleman in commercialization the other day, and he called it the pain quotient. Is there a big enough pain quotient that would really dictate that there is a necessary, there's a real need for something like this in the market. And often, like we all do, and we think our ideas are really wonderful, sometimes, because we're so excited about them. We expect others to also be just as excited. Yeah. And I hear that it's common that we can sort of forget to do that initial research to find that pain Quotient or to like you said, see if there's really enough interest out there. Do you find that's a that's a common thing with products that tend to not maybe get off the ground?
Spencer Jones 19:23
Yeah, no, it's it absolutely is I mean, and you're, you're as a founder or the creator of something, you have a vested interest in believing it will succeed and believing it's a huge problem. So So I think people really do a disservice when they don't go out and try to figure out what that pain quotient is from the customer's mouth and from the end users mouth and something, something that I'm saying too, that kind of speaks to that pain quotient. You know, something can be an absolute bear for a surgeon or a nurse to deal with right Right, and you have a solution that makes that thing that problem a little bit better, or a lot better, even right? And that it also may be better for the patient. And you look at this and say, this is better for the patient, it's, it's better for the surgeon. It's not even super expensive. Why wouldn't anyone use this? Right? Everyone should love this. Right. And I think those people and it's such an opaque, murky side of the healthcare industry, but you know, how things are financed insurance coverage and how things are reimbursed, and the profit margins at you know, this facility versus that facility, and the contracted purchasing landscape, whether it's, you know, bundled agreements with large OEMs or GPO contracts, or run down the list on all of those kind of finance side that have nothing to do with putting hands on patient, right. I I've said this, and Dr. Dr. Ammerman, he's a neurosurgeon out of DC Big shout out to him that I work with, you know, it is not he, I think he coined this, it is not just good enough, these days to be clinically superior, you have to be clinically superior. And you have to provide a direct cost advantage, or at a minimum cost parity for the hospital, right. Because if you truly have something innovative, what that means is they're not currently solving your problem. So what you're going to bring to them is likely just an added cost, right. And they're not going to do that in this environment, unless you have, you know, a cure for a disease that's not being cured or something that's, you know, Truly, truly, truly groundbreaking. But, you know, just hospitals, it's hard, hard to get them to pay serious money for incremental improvements to things that they're not already solving, and things that are not going to directly impact their bottom line. I say direct, I don't mean, there's this benefit, because this thing might happen or might happen less and down the road, you'll save money, I'm talking like, you need to be you were buying this, now you're buying mine and it's cheaper or the same price, and you're getting all this clinical value. That's what they want to see these days, it seems like, Yeah, okay.
Claire Davis 22:05
So from your perspective, I would love to know, you know, obviously, there's a lot of contracts and a lot of hospitals that will take on the laundry list from one company, and they will slightly innovate new products that are necessary. So essentially, they're buying from one vendor, right? So like saying that Tronic or something? Do you think that it would be better or worse, for a hospital to be more contract driven with one vendor? Or that it would be better to have multiple vendors with different competitive products to drive maybe innovation? And if if and efficiency? Or maybe is it the other way around? It's better to innovate and be efficient with one company at a time? What are your thoughts on that?
Spencer Jones 22:51
It's a really good question. You know, there is a lot of that. I'll call it kind of bundled price breaks and rebates that you're able to get and elevation of tears, because you're spending so much there's a ton of that that happens, you know, I would say it's probably specific to like a certain department because, you know, and I'm just on this just to use an example or, you know, hypothetically here, but Medtronic may have great plates and screws, but their biologics aren't what you want. You want another company's biologics and, and so on and so forth. I mean, I think General for in general, from like, an antitrust perspective, like, the more competition you have, the better it's going to be in terms of getting the best products possible and getting them at the right price. Right. So anything, you know, I would, I would lean towards more innovation, more diversification of your, you know, supply chain, if you will, or your vendors that you're working with, you know, most all of these vendors are going to be distributing their product through a cardinal are a Medline or McKesson. So at the end of the day, you're still going to be getting that one shipment or you know, however often you get that shipment from the MEDLINE truck or whatever. So so it doesn't really mess up your logistics side of the supply chain as much but from a how many vendors different products were using, I would Lin I would lean towards more competition because you're going to be getting a kind of a broader, more diverse set of products and when new innovative things pop up that can really help your patients or save you money. You're not contractually bound by some non clinical reason to stick with one of those companies right?
Claire Davis 24:25
Interesting. Thank you so much for sharing that you know, I I've so enjoyed following you on LinkedIn and which is where we met everybody so please do just like just like we're sharing here today Spencer's right. Even reaching out on LinkedIn can make a huge difference in the people and the quality of relationships that you build, where you want to get visible where you want to learn and grow. And one thing I've learned from you is, is certain certainly passion for the product, my goodness, the stuff that you guys are creating. It's just phenomenal, especially where pediatrics are concerned. earned. And it's, it's really incredible to see. And so just today, even Gosh, we've been talking 30 minutes, couple things I've taken away from this conversation today are that it is an incredible asset to have somebody with clinical experience on the ground floor, guiding the business processes and the idea generation of new products like these. So I was just chatting with a gentleman the other day, and he said, Yeah, we've got a really great product, but it's incredibly difficult for the nurses to deploy. So while the physicians may love it, actually getting it to happen, and that or suite is a real problem, and it won't fly. So having somebody like you on the team is absolutely essential. And I love that. The other thing that you mentioned that I think is really interesting is that, you know, you don't have to know everything. It's not like you wake up one day, and suddenly you're ready to guide a startup, right. But if you have passion, reach out to those mentors, and start developing those relationships and learn that business acumen where you want to be powerful in your field. And then finally, having that clear differentiator advantage, that's what's gonna make products and people stand apart. And I think that, you know, this is really powerful stuff right here. So if somebody wants to connect with you, and and learn more, maybe, you know, chat with you about what you've got going on, and what your products are all about, and hear your story where, where should they connect with you?
Spencer Jones 26:31
Yeah, so um, I tried to be pretty good about checking my messages on LinkedIn. So it's Spencer Jones on LinkedIn, I'm the one that's working dilapidations. I'm the only Spencer at our company that I know. So just reach out, you can message me on LinkedIn. You know, I actually really enjoy getting to connect with people, you know, if you're, if anything we talked about today resonated with you. Just shoot me a message on LinkedIn. And you know, whether you just want to say you enjoyed the podcast, or you want to connect, you know, for a quick phone call or something or a zoom, I would love to connect with you. And I appreciate you listening all the way through this awesome podcast. I know I had fun and clear, I just just really appreciated that you had me on.
Claire Davis 27:13
I'm so grateful. You know, I've admired you for a while. You're exactly who I who I knew you'd be from getting to know you through your content. So I appreciate you and your candor and everything you've shared. And you know, if you guys want to have round two, also with Spencer, I'll put you on the spot. And maybe we'll do we'll continue this conversation in the future. But I can't thank you enough for really highlighting some of these things today. I know a lot of people in the clinical space in the medical sales space, have entrepreneurial aspirations. So follow Spencer, check out what he's going on and connect with him. You can't go wrong. And thank you so much for your time today. And thanks. Thanks, everybody here for joining. You know if you're here and listening is because you want to learn and grow on your craft. And we're grateful for each one of you for tuning in. So thank you so much for joining us today, Switzer. Thank you Take care. All right, you too. Until next time. Thanks, everyone for joining and we'll see you then.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
