The Power of Building Trust in your Business

AI-Generated Transcript below. There may be errors.

Claire Davis 0:00

Welcome back to another episode of today's medical sales leader where I have guests come on and share the real behind the scenes tips that you need to operate in the modern world of medical sales. And today is no different. I have an incredible guest with me here today. His name is Marcus Chan. And if you haven't followed Marcus chan yet, I highly encourage you to do so he gives away all the goods when it comes to becoming a major player in sales, especially earning six figures, really refining your approach and learning how to develop systems that will support you quickly. And for the long term. So Marcus, I've had the unique opportunity to interview you now three times and I'm so blessed. So thank you so much for entertaining me one more time.

Marcus Chan 1:11

Oh, Claire, I'm excited to be here. We always have fun. We always put it out at time and extra probably daily no different than any other time. I'm pumped to be here.

Claire Davis 1:19

Oh, that's so awesome. Yeah, I feel I feel really grateful to have you with me again today. So, you know, I think a lot of people are wondering, what are we going to talk about today? If you first of all, if you haven't grabbed Marcus's book, I'm shamelessly going to demand that you do. So right now, we're just talking about this behind the scenes. Because how you can grab a lot of different sales theory books, Marcus gives you a playbook right here. And it can apply to all kinds of different markets and industries. So do yourself a favor and grab it today. And Marcus, thanks for creating such an awesome second bestseller.

Marcus Chan 1:56

Oh, I appreciate that. It was pretty cool to to put together. Because ultimately I put together for those out there who want a playbook to actually execute actually go in, we'll put some money and have a lot of fun doing it.

Claire Davis 2:08

Yeah, that's so awesome. I mean, you did not disappoint this thing is absolute gold, down to how you can analyze personality types before you go into a cold call. And I think that that is something that maybe we start off with that at the beginning. Because at the core, if we're going to apply this kind of sales strategy to any market, I feel like that's something that everybody needs to know. So can you tell us a little bit about that?

Marcus Chan 2:35

Sure. Absolutely. So I think one of the most important things is most salespeople have a certain way of doing things. And it's not that is necessarily wrong, but if you've ever felt I didn't I'm just better this type of prospects? Well, you're probably right, because of your personality type and how that person or that prospect is like, but they're gonna get in front of somebody else. It's like, oh, it's really hard to sell this type of person. And the average rep is just said, that's just the way things are. But the elite sales professional understands, okay, how can I lean into my strengths, but also be aware of my weaknesses and adjust the personality type of the prospect. And I really break down into four types of personality types, and depending on which personality, you know, studies you've looked into, there's many out there, I can like generally bucket into four, right? And when I go through them, the some of you might be like, Well, I think I'm more of this than that. Somebody it's a blend, alright, so it's not necessarily that there's nothing as binary, it's not one or the other. It's usually a blend. Alright, so for example, so number one is analytical. So an analytical decision maker. They're like, usually pretty much in the weeds, they want to know numbers, they ask a lot of questions. They're very specific. They're very particular, they get in the nitty gritty of things. That's, that's really common decision maker geohab, especially the really high up level, generally speaking, then you have like a director style and like my personality, which they're very direct. Like, they're very short, they're very concise with you. They're very like they they don't like they don't want you to be asked them around. They don't like fluff. They want you to get right to the point. And, in fact, sometimes when they talk to you, you might feel like they're trying to bulldoze you and you feel run over by that right. And it's not because they don't like you, that just might be just how they operate. So they're usually very busy, very hurried, they're always ready to go, take and take an action pretty quickly, right? Then there's like, expressive, expressive as like you can kind of say they have more personality, they're more open, they're friendly. They're these colorful language, and they just have a personality that's very vibrant, and they're very visionary and how they talk right? And they don't usually get into into the weeds or details. And then you have like the more emotional feeling based one, it was more interpersonal which they are you can tell by the word these feel they might be soft spoken. They care about how other people feel, and it's honestly a bad thing as well. There their annual right which you can kind of guide them as well. And when you understand that there's four personality types, whatever you want to call them, then you can adjust your style, right because of how you perceive them. So for example, when you even when you walk, especially in the in the field sales world, if you can see their office, it'll give you a, you can tell pretty quickly what's important to them. Right. So for example, like typically, a director style, they love, status, recognition, accolades, etc. That's my style. I used to when I played a weight, I'm very direct, right supply, I hate fluff, right. And that could also people people the wrong way, right, and especially if I'm on a sales call, if they're more soft spoken, and more amiable, if I just take overs are dominating that conversation, that could totally turn them off. And I made the mistake early on, right, or if they're also a director, like mentality, and now you might go head to head. So there's a balance of how you adjusted. So the key is when you understand that, and for every prospect, so not just the decision maker, but the gatekeeper, the office manager, anybody you talk to, and you realize that each have their own personality type. It's like, how can you adjust it, what language they speak? And how can you identify a language to speak their language?

Claire Davis 6:13

That's so critical. And you know, I really liked that you bring that up in your book, because with without a doubt, in any industry, it applies. But, you know, in medical sales, I think there's this feeling of, because it's so difficult to access doctors since 2020. But really, it went earlier than that the last 10 years, gatekeepers have been coming, becoming tighter and tighter and tighter, with who gets left back in the office and who gets access to the or. And we have this idea that a doctor is just as hard driver, he's really elusive. And it's hard to get a hold of, and he probably just doesn't want to talk to me. But really, if we leaned into these different personality types, like you're saying, then it would make each step of the process easier. And I think we would understand our client better. One of the things, one of the things that I know that medical sales reps and managers both have a ton of trouble with right now is access, almost every single client that I work with is having a heck of a time in the first five minutes, they'll say something to the effect of well, you know, access has been really hard. But in the last two years, it's been absolutely closed. So now what so I'd love to hear if you could give advice to a rep or a manager, even who was trying to guide their team on new ways to get access to these hard to reach decision decision makers. Where should they start? What's something new, they should be trying?

Marcus Chan 7:40

Hmm, great question. So first off, how we view is really important. So a lot of people don't realize this, but this is actually good. And here's what I mean by that, when it's really hard to get a hold of decision makers, especially for you know, medical, medical in the medical field, that means hard for everyone else as well. So that becomes now competitive. And when the barrier to entry is high, that gives you an opportunity to become better. And the mistake a lot of reps make is they're like, Oh, it's too hard, like it is complain about right? Which Yeah, that's okay. It's okay. If it's hard, it now becomes a barrier of entry. And what's really cool is, because it's hard, once you're able to actually break free, earn the trust and earn the business, they're gonna stay with you so much longer, because no one else can break in. Yeah, it becomes a it becomes a moat for your business as well. So when you understand that, and you perceive it, that way, you're more willing to do the work it takes to actually break free. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna share with you just, I'm just gonna share with you a few different ways to kind of break through but I want to share with you just context because I talked to a lot of medical devices, sales professionals, or even Pharma. And they're kind of like, Oh, it's so hard. It's so hard. It's so hard, right? It is hard, for sure, right? But there are also more tough situations, right. And I'll give you an example. Even as a rep, go in the field, there were businesses, they'll call on where you would try to pull up and there's a security guard at the very front. So yeah, go to Security are sometimes there's no secured card, it's just completely locked. Right either scan a barcode, and you can see the building. You can see the bill you see there's plenty of vehicles and you can see the big thrive, you know, it's a huge opportunity, but you can't get to the door. You call the main line. It's just a main line. There's no phone directory or anything. Right. Yeah, the reality is is like those are again, Moats. Those are moats the business, right, so now it's like, how do you actually break free and break through? And there's many different ways you can do it. Right. So like, for example, like, you know, like, if you're actually number one, have you done your homework on the prospect? Have you didn't find the best possible way to actually get their information? Right, whether it's a main line, or even if you could find a cell number which I know some people would call cell number But you have to lean towards discomfort, right? You don't get paid, you do not get paid to be comfortable, right? Like you do. Right? Can you get their email address? It's shocking how it's like, if you just like just did a little homework, or if you have access to it today, you get to buy a lot of email addresses, right? There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Or you can reverse Hacket meaning let's just say for example, you cold outbound, a doctor's office, and the office manager answers like, I can't give you any information, like, I want you to send an email to the give us a general office email, right? Well, here's the thing. Let's just say it's like, help ads, you know, Dr. jones.com. Split, right. Right. Now, you know, interesting, okay, like, Help, Dr. Jones is probably gonna be the domain. Well, how about the front part? Can I run a few different tests? For example, can I go and I can I type in potential variations of front part of the email? You know, as I say, it's Tony Jones, Tony dot Jones, Dr. jones.com, Tony Jones, Dr. jones.com, you know, T dot Jones a take that and you can throw it into, say, Gmail, and see which one gets verified? Right. So there's many ways the My point is, is like, there's not gonna be one one silver bullet, and that's missing a thing. I think, well, reps make it like, what's a one set of bolts get through? There's not? There's not, it's a matter of being able to try multiple different ways. It's like, you don't have to gatekeeper How can you be more persuasive, more influential, their gatekeeper? If you pop it in? How can you gain their trust faster? How can you break through the noise? How can you treat them with respect? So we're actually going to help you out? You know, who do you know, referrals, like how begins the opportunity? So I think a lot of times as salespeople we think so linearly, we're like, alright, I tried to go in door was locked. They don't have anybody I tried to call. They didn't answer. As a voicemail, I sent one email to general email, there was no way in. What if it was that easy, one touch point, one linear process and get you in, then it's going to work over time. The The point is, you identify number one, is it a vibe, opportunity number two, then you want to to do the work to extract breakthrough, right, and you got to mix it up. Depending on the situation, if it's a big healthcare system can be very different. Right? If it becomes your system, you might be calling on the C suite and said, right to make big implementation going down, depending on what you sell, etc, right. So there's other ways kind of leverage it. But the key is like, you look, we look at each opportunity. You want to think it's kind of like, like ants, if you ever have answered your house, you know, your house, your house is fine. And so you've always asked, like, where does it come from? You find they find a weak point in your pantry. And they come in underneath because they smell the sugar or something, right? Like, Oh, interesting. That's a weak point. As a sales rep, it's the same thing as a horror opportunity. What's the weak point? How can you break through? Is it through the gatekeeper? Is it through walking in? Is it through a call? Is it? Is it through multiple sources? Is it through finding them on Facebook Messenger on Facebook? Is it through Instagram is through Twitter. So it's not necessarily linear, but if the juice is worth the squeeze, if it's good opportunity, it's been able to think creatively on how can you best cut through the noise? And whichever medium you go through? How can you make sure the message actually resonates exactly to their benefit? Oh, yeah, sort of thinking this way, it now becomes much more powerful to actually connect the doctor to actually have a conversation to actually move forward.

Claire Davis 13:35

So you know, when you are in the sales seat, I feel like a little bit of what you're talking about is also we feel so much pressure to close on that call. But really, maybe there and I'm cheating because I've read your book and I love your process. But can you walk people through how not every call needs to be Hi, can you give me your business but maybe you go in for a fact finding call as a as a first step. So can you share a little bit about what the different types of entry points are different calls can have like the different purposes to eventually get you to closing a sale?

Marcus Chan 14:14

Absolutely. So I picture sales process is so much like It's like sports, right? Like, you know, the goal, your goal is to make a goal right to make a basket or whatever right to get to the end zone, you know, there's a desired result you want to get to now is every single time you will throw a touchdown, no, no way. Right? Like sometimes yes. But like, the more complex the opportunity is, the less likely to be a one call close, if you will. The goal is how can I how can every every time I have the ball, I move it down the field, right? So each step should hopefully sell the next step depending on what's going on. Right. So for example, if let's say you walk into a doctor's office and you haven't you know, the doctor is you've never talked to him You never gotten they've never called you back. You never they don't want any emails. You know the opener Email, but you haven't been able to break through. So maybe perhaps your first stage is gonna be okay, let me know if I pop into the office. My goal is I need to gain trust with a cake keeper, right? So they can hopefully open the calendar up and put it on the calendar. Or, you know, let me know those blank spots, if there's any place with all the calendar, right? Like or find a better way to actually catch them. Right. And when you start thinking this way, it gets a little bit different. So for example, you might walk in, and now it's like, you know, you know, the receptionist is John the receptionist. And now it's like, it's like, you maybe already called me for you walk in and says, I will talk to Dr. Jones like, Hey, John. Yeah, John, they're confused now. Oh, hey, John. I'm Marcus with x. Actually, I talk to you on the phone for a little bit. Right. Like, like, I know, it's been great, a crazy, crazy busy day. But is there any chance I can talk to so so no, he's busy right now. No worries, how some don't just like leave now. builds trust, report them. Right? Find out what's what's going on in their world, build some convert doesn't trust here. Right? Like the key is is like when we start thinking transformational about opportunities. And you realize by building trust with John, John might now guide you to when they're available. That's really powerful, right? Because if you think about this, like, I'll give an example. So every time they'll walk in, to you know, a walk in cold call, right? You walk into the business or whatever we met, even back office, we augment our offices as well as our reception. They're kind of guarded, you know, and then we, you talk to them for a little bit to kind of open it up, ask them some easy questions, and they feel really couple if you haven't know, like what you guys do for X, Y, and Z? Oh, no, we're gonna take care of cool i'll use for oh, he's been for like, 20 years really happy. We love the rep. That's great to hear. Awesome. How long have you been here for? I've been here for five years? Well, that's amazing. I'm sure you probably seen a lot lots sales people coming to you. Oh, yeah. All the time. Okay, cool. And now that they've had a lot of you a little bit of trust, a little bit conversation. And now it's so easy to kind of ask another question that's relevant to you. Right? Hey, so I know, obviously, the doctor is really loyal to who they're using. Like, do you happen to know like, I mean, basically, you've seen so far, like, would they be open to the conversation at all? I mean, I think so. But all if we could talk about this. Okay, cool. Well, that's all you need. You see it opening? Right? Yeah, that's kind of my points. Like, I think we think so linearly. It's like, why don't hit this objective, then it's, it's a dead opportunity. No, you actually built on trust and good luck, or you move you move forward. Right? The key is, is like, is being able to get a trust as fast as possible. And I would say, the faster you can do that, the better it's gonna be. Right. That's why it's like when you walk in, you have the EFB ready to go. Like, if you raise a game as fast as possible, you can't like you know, slow moving slow, and like, oh, you know, I was trying to get hold of Dr. Wright. Jones, like, who are you? Right? So like, this works like, like, once, once the game, the game timer starts, you gotta be odd. Yes. And we started thinking this way you start each stage, we move forward, because now it's like, okay, that's stage sold, you move, you move to progress. Like, they're usually, they usually come in early on Fridays before 8am to get some paperwork done. So, you know, if you happen to be here around a time, you might tell a catch him. That's all I need to know. Now, I'm there at seven o'clock, right? Wait outside the door, right? To catch them for even a quick conversation. And again, let's see. I mean, it'd be at 7am. And honestly, they're trying to run a discovery process or present anything. It may be December time, and beloved trust, right, again, moving this stage forward. So every stage you go into, it may not be linear. But once you're in that stage, what's your desired outcome? How can you move forward? Right, if you're in discovery, it might be purely factfinding, which then you can send them a follow up call as well to bring some samples, have a conversation, bringing over you know, any type of collateral or documentation that they may want to see other case studies use cases, etc. So they feel more comfortable with you. So every single step should have a goal to move forward. Right. And but again, it's not toward necessary. I mean, ideally, the goal is to close, but can you move it towards closing? Can you move it down the field? And when you start thinking that way, you stop playing the long game?

Claire Davis 19:14

Yeah. You know, one thing I love that you talk a lot about, as far as who are the top performers in sales of all industries, and specifically with your clients to is they spend the majority of their time prospecting and qualifying who they're going to speak with because I remember the early days of being in the field and the the answer to Oh, you're not developing enough business was make more calls. And it's a it's a circle, it's a trap. So can you can you take me from when so instead of you know, calling, calling calling on that same person that you just you just got through the, the gatekeeper, and now you found when that doctor is going to be in the office on Friday, what should I be doing? Between when I heard he's going to be the office, and when I'm sitting in my car at 7am on Friday, what kind of ways can I research and do that qualifying so that when that game time starts, I can be ready.

Marcus Chan 20:16

Hmm, cool. So I think the field is my there's like emotional preparation to gain emotional trust. And there's like logical preparation, like logical preparations like taking a look at your car, what details you have about the note any past calls? Is there anything online you can learn about the doctor that's relevant to the field that you're in, right? Like having been part of conferences or anything else like that, like that's, like, very logical at you at the zoo, it's gonna help you potentially gain trust faster. From a business perspective. That's what you have to find out. That can be press releases, that can be whatever they're, they can be checking out their social media, see what they're posting about their activism there some are, some are not as various right? But you do Where is 2022? As right now, right, maybe 20 people, you actually listen to this, but it's like, you could search and find anything by anyone right now. Right? So you gain some business perspective, right? And that by itself, you already had the game. Now, here's the thing. At the end of the day, most generally speaking, most doctors are very ego driven. You know, most people are stats driven, etc. Right? So now what else can you find out about them? They'll help gain trust very quickly, that can be relevant to them. Right? So take a look at their social media. Have they posted anything? Maybe they got voted? You know, number one doctor, you know, in the Pacific Northwest, right? Number one pediatrician in Pacific Northwest by whatever your organization, right? Or maybe other cool things they posted on recently, you know, take a look at their Facebook page, take a look at their social media handles for the organization. What are they put out recently? Because usually, it's probably important to them. Right? So if you saw a big healthcare system, and you see that the health care system had published their most recent article that's like, you know, getting a lot of buzz, you want to know that is? Alright, so like, depending on how small or big you want to do your homework in advance, knowing about what's going on in their world, what's most important to them. And sometimes it really was really clear and evident, somebody's not as clear. So you do your best, right. But then you can also encourage them a personal close to like, for example, like, you know, like this small basic stuff that like, I don't know, you find you find that even It's so silly when you find out what sports teams are into. Yeah, right. Other Other things aren't as important to them. How can you slip that in? You uncover their family person? How can you incorporate that in your conversation? Yeah, I think a mistake that people make is like, they walk in, they're like, Oh, hey, so I see. You're a fisherman. Cool. Me too. I'm a fisherman too. Awesome. That's very general. Right? But like, imagine, like, you know, you go to that you booked me that doctor or you're in the hallway, you're talking a little bit. It's like, Hey, how's it going? Can you have some conversation that I'm gonna pour? And you're wrapping me up? And you know, it's an answer. He gave a plan for the weekend. He's like, Oh, you know, I'm gonna go. I got some kids stuff, too. And you're Yeah, cool. Me too. Actually, I got I got two boys at home. We're actually gonna be going camping do this. Isn't this weekend? It over here by this river ever been there? Oh, no, it sounds amazing. Now it's like Bo, you're starting to build some emotional trust and rapport based off of that. So I think the mistake is, it's like the way you think about everything that you do in a sales call, from the preparations point will either gain trust or decrease trust. So if you're not to be to be the to be the true, what could you find the upfront to actually improve? What happened on the call? So it's not always like it found these things every single time because someone simply won't be available, especially if you call it like a doctor. That's been like, let's say Euclid website, you can tell us like 19 like 99 they may not have updated it. Right? So you got to take your head and watching prepare, get the best, you know, gather the situation, and then you just do your best of conversation. But more importantly, what questions can you prepare now? So if you don't have a lot of details, what can you prepare? What do you want to find out? Right? So it's like Zonda, what you say? But also, what do you ask? Right? Rather than

Claire Davis 24:11

Rather than I check samples? Exactly. That's not enough.

Marcus Chan 24:15

Yeah, exactly. Right. You want to be like, transformational about it, right? Like, for example, like if you find a doctor that maybe it's worked for big healthcare system for like 20 years. So they've seen the changes across the board. How powerful is the halo? So listen, like, you know, since you've been a podiatrist for 20 plus years, you've seen the evolution and you've been here at Legacy hospital, how long? What have been some of the coolest things you see last 20 years? Interesting. Where most of the most recent innovations, right? Or if you if you if you're studying industry trends, you want to get up high No, this is a bit controversial because I just came out with X procedure. I'm definitely curious. What are your thoughts?

Claire Davis 24:57

Oh, so good mark,

Marcus Chan 24:58

as you know, Does that make you stand out?

Claire Davis 25:01

Yes, exactly. And it comes back to knowing your customer and what their goals are right. And if we can help them achieve those things, I remember when I was working for agenda, which is a molecular diagnostic company for women's health, and the physicians, our oncologists are always being presented new and exciting technology to help direct their care if it's going to be radiology, if it's going to be, you know, chemo or all kinds of things. And so our tests would help them. But the thing is, they are so bombarded with all of these different options, that it was a huge weight off their shoulders, that our team had a group of customers, you know, care group that would explain the result and explain the test to his patients. So then suddenly, they are bought into the test, yes, but they can focus on diagnosis, which is this is going to mean for your family, what it's going to mean for your recovery, and the details of the test, which he may or may not know, to certain degree. It's all handled, you know, we took that off their plates. And I just remember that being something that was really helpful for oncologists. And the only reason that we did it was because we knew that they have to explain so much in a short amount of time with that patient, that if we could help take some of the load off, it would be a win. And it was a huge, powerful.

Marcus Chan 26:28

Yeah, I mean, think about it, even if it's just like, you asked, like, what's your current process of doing this? What's your current stream X? How's it impact you? How could that be improved? Yeah, right. And they're just talented. They'll tell you these type of things, like you just mentioned, like, it's like, oh, cool. So now it's like, oh, my gosh, is painful. We only have like, three minutes explain this whole process for them. They're feel overwhelmed that their emotional ready because of what's going on, and they get mad at me. Now you have all it's very powerful, because you actually uncovering what's actually going on in the world. So then from there, it's, it's amazing how, when you show them the solution, it's like a no brainer. Now, this makes sense, like, offer me great.

Claire Davis 27:11

And detach it from what our, what our sale is, to what they really need, I think that's something that I hear of often is that, you know, well, that doesn't really, that's not going to help me sell my product. But it's going to increase the trust. And you you build that goodwill, and that reciprocal nature with that target. So with that client, you help them and then the trust is there, when you have something to bring to the table. I think that's a really powerful concept.

Marcus Chan 27:38

So a lot of times people just they focus on the short term benefit. But they don't focus on the long term impact. Right. So let's go back to even your example right there. Like you just reduce the stress of the doctor. Yeah, so they're not stress, the patients are happier, they get supports, the doctor is able to provide provide help, they want to help their patients, they will provide a next level of a next level of care. That's powerful. So when they're less stressed, they can take better care of the patient, they can focus more on other patients while they can serve more people, there becomes all these other benefits as a result of what you sold them. Yeah. And the second pill makers like oh, this solves one single problem, right? And he applies concepts like literally anything. So for example, like you look at say like this, this water bottle, you're watching the video, like this water bottle, it seems like nothing remotely like oh, it's a water bottle. But for me, it's not just a water bottle. It's how I stay hydrated. When I stay hydrated, I feel better when I feel better, I perform better. Right? So it's not just like, oh, this question. My third is like, this water bottle helps me also helps me reduce going back and forth is a huge bottle. So it saves me time. It makes me more productive. Yeah, interesting. That's probably now people buy a water bottle for that's why my water bottle, right?

Claire Davis 28:55

Yeah. Yeah. Can I add a fringe benefit to that water, please? Yeah. So we got one of those as well. And recently, we just cut and put a Christmas tree in our house. We're recording this before Christmas, everybody. And it is a long water bottle. So it's easier to fill the tree will see that many, many benefits.

Marcus Chan 29:15

Right? Right. That's my point. Right? So a lot of times, like I think it's like when people look at one thing that I like, honestly, like, even like my book people, like it's not just a book to Oh, it's some neat tips. It's like, ultimately, if you do what's in the book, you will make more money, you have more time freedom, you do whatever you want. That's why people want to better sell, they don't want to get to sell tickets to get better at selling. They want to they want to get better at selling so they can create the life that they want. That's just reality. Right?

Claire Davis 29:39

You know, for for most folks who are listening to this podcast right now they're in medical sales or in some some part of sales that touches health care. And what I find is the often they will transition in and out of other types of sales. So they'll go for SAS for a while they'll do other kinds and then many of them come back to medical sales. because they really get a thrill from knowing that they touched a patient's life. And so at the end of the day, you know, we've got to overcome that feeling of, well, if I'm improving and becoming a better salesperson, am I becoming more salesy? Well, no, you're helping more people because you're better at your craft. And so that's what I really appreciate about your book, and all the things that you share, because you make it a, you make it a playbook and a step by step system that people can follow. And they can improve themselves beyond what they're taught at their corporate training, which goes so far and only lasts a week or two every year. So it really does pay I've found to invest in these alternate sales, good sales coaching, because if you commit to it in this lifelong way, the effect that you have on other people in any industry, and certainly in medical sales is incredible.

Marcus Chan 31:03

You're so spot on, right, we're, you know, I look at every career, it's a choice, it's, I look at as a craft, or just a job, right? And we look at as a craft, and especially when you're able to see the bigger picture, because you're spot on. Like if you truly believe in the healthcare solution that you sell, that you will positively impact someone's life. And it doesn't have to be like necessarily any any crazy. It can be a simple, you know, a simple medical device for foot. Right? But if that's going to make the life of someone's, you know, grandmother, grandfather way easier because of that, so they have more time with their family and kids and actually run and play with them. You change their life, right? And we started thinking this way, you realize it's actually your duty to sell at the highest level? Because when you sell the highest level you are serving at the highest level.

Claire Davis 31:54

Right. Exactly. Exactly. And so well, first of all, Marcus, thank you so much for joining me today. Every time I talk to you, and you drop gems and strategy. Today, some of my favorite specifically were, you do not get paid to be comfortable. So that is something we all can be reminded of now and then right. So important. I love how you approach getting access to hard to reach people. So creatively, see if you can figure out there email. I mean, try some things and see if they work. And I love how you help people to really focus in on doing better and higher quality tasks instead of a greater quantity. And I think that can apply everywhere. So I know I'm inspired. I love your book. I've shamelessly promoted it so much. You know how much I love you. And I'm so glad you're up here in the Pacific Northwest with me. Can you tell anyone who's listening to the show or watching the show today where they can connect with you and find out more?

Marcus Chan 32:54

Awesome. So you head over to LinkedIn put it up on LinkedIn head over there liquid commodity markets champ. You can also go to close with sharing.com Get a copy of my book for free. Just pay for shipping handling. That's probably easiest place to get that or you can just google me right. Sounds weird. Just google me but you'll probably see me pop up on the top of SERPs as well. They'll be easy to find too.

Claire Davis 33:11

Awesome. Thank you so much for your time and for everybody